>Now I look back over 13 or so years ago, I can "see" the struggle the
>fish put up trying to safe itself from certain death. Would I not
>struggle like crazy when I have a hooked rope around my neck (hands
>tied) when a large shark pulls me into the ocean? Would I not scream
>for mercy, for help.
You are turning a natural event like catching a fish into a soap opera.
>How would we feel when a crocodile here in North Queensland gets hold
>of us and drags us into the water for a certain drawning death?
>Wouldn't we scream?
So you want to turn crocodiles into vegans too?
>Animals in the wild are different, they do not know compassion in the
>way we know of, that is their nature. Next when you kill a fish,
>animal, look it into the eyes and ask yourself whether you would like
>to be in the position of the fish, animal. "Sentimental" thoughts or
>feelings?? Only to those who do not possess compassion and love for
>what is "living".
This really offends me. Are you saying that only vegans have compassion
and loving for what is living? This is to me a remark so full of
violence & prejudice and reveals the hypocrisy so many vegans like
yourself perpetuate.
>As long as humanity kills, for whatever reason, there is lack of inner
>peace, of inner harmony, an out of balance situation. It is not
>"love-ful"consciousness and then we ask why humanity has all the
>problems, physical as well as mental.
If anything I have found vegans to be a lot more intolerant and bigoted
than the average meateater. Blaming the problems of humanity on the
consumption of animal foods is ludicrous.(except for modern factory
farming & fishing, of course)
>That what is lacking on the "within" will show itself on the "without"
>in physical form in ill health and in thought, mental form, in hatred,
>resentment, spite, anger etc.
This is pure superstition.
>Then humanity claims that it cannot live on the most peaceful of all
>diets and blames the lack in the dietary nutrition,
>not giving us what we need, instead of blaming their own lack within.
Man you are going over the edge here.
>Would the "Creator" not have given us the best and most peaceful of
>foods to eat, but instead would the "Creator" have given us inadequate
>foods so we may get ill and sick in the mind as well??
Who is this creator? Do you really believe that the world was created?
- and even more with us humans in mind? The vanity of the human soul
never ceases to astound me.
>In humanities imbalance, it is humanity itself that has created
>inadequate foods - by depleting the soils of the Earth - by the use of
>chemicals - etc. etc. - then put the blame on "something" or "someone"
>else. It becomes a vicious circle that way.
If you would walk your talk and stop the blaming yourself, then I would
agree with the above.
>The great masters and spiritual guides tell us also that all
>disharmony in the outer, of whatever nature, is but the reflection of
>the disharmony, lack of love from the heart.
You hardly need a great spiritual master to tell you that.
>For the realisation of this I am still "working" on myself and I also
>do so for and in my work for the Fruitarian Network.
How humble of you. (thick sarcasm)
>Do you want to fish, kill animals so you may live in health, really,
>do you need it for true health?
No, I want to kill animals for the sport of it.(more thick sarcasm)
>I wish you peace and inner harmony. Rene (Fruitarian Network).
Which cannot be reached in a state of self-righteous denial. Your
complete refusal to get into the core of the issue of what killing an
animal really means on the deep personal level and to look at and
question your own social conditioning and what it might symbolize to
you does not get give me much hope that you will ever transcend beyond
your personal limitations.
I am growing very weary of seeing these same old, vegan arguments being
repeated ad nauseum without any nuance. No matter how many on this list
have bent themselves backwards to try to explain their position in
favor of some RAF consumption, counter arguments have more often than
not been met with a roaring silence.(Rene, I doubt that you have any
intention whatsoever to respond to Kirt's well-thought response to this
post) This list is for dialogue not one-sided manifestos, and if this
style of opportunistic posting continues I will start moderating on it.
I respect veganism very much but this self-righteous misrepresentation
of it has to stop. Many of my responses to this post have been without
content and quite disrespectful I realize that, but I refuse to sit
down any longer and spend a lot of my precious time giving well-thought
and deep felt responses to people who will not even pay me the courtesy
to respond in a similar fashion or even respond at all.
Rene, just so you do not feel I am picking you out the same goes for
Bob Avery & Stephen Arvin (NFL). I will be enforcing a stricter set of
rules for accountability and basic courtesy in the future and for NFL,
the worst offender in this respect, retroactively if the list does not
soon get a civil response to my last response to Stephen. I want to
raise the level of discourse on this list (Martha's pro-vegan postings
are a good example of the level you three should be aspiring to) so
that a more established figures can be asked to join.(one unsubscribed
recently after only a few days on board)
Please honor your responsibility for a respectful and intelligent
dialogue by when posting to 1) Try to be more clear about what is your
opinion and what you know as a fact. 2) Not post your opinions or what
you believe to be facts if you are not willing to respond in full
(within reason, of course) to any questions or counter arguments that
might be made to you.
These new guidelines will be added on to the introductory message to
the list which will be re-edited within the next 3-4 weeks before being
sent out to you all.
Best, Peter
Moderator Raw-food
[log in to unmask]
|
