Peter wrote:
> >>How "bad" would killing be if you were able or willing to subtract
> >>your emotional baggage from the subject?

Emotional baggage?  Peter, may I ask you something?  Why are (or
were) you a vegan?  You seem to hold such utter contempt for the
values that normally lead someone down this path.

Then Bob replied:
> >Why would I want to do this?  Just to make you happy?

Peter again:
> Because in the end it is the only test that really counts. A vegan
>that  is not ready to try RAF at least for a period of time is in my opinion

> not willing to walk his talk.

I'm with Bob here.  This logic completely baffles me.

Peter continues:
> I think you are scared of doing the
> experiment because you deep inside know that if you do, it will
>forever  change your outlook and that you realize that with all the emotional
> baggage you have tied up with them you are just not ready to let
>go of  your vegan belief systems quite yet.

I interpret this as:  Bob is not the only one here able to project his
own feelings onto other people.  There.  I couldn't resist a little
amateur psychoanalysis of my own.  So why are you so interested in
having Bob do the RAF thing, if he's feeling fine?

snip, snip, snip

Peter goes on:
> One day our technology might be so advanced that we will be able
>to   colonize other planets, but unless we get help from some alien
>beings,  this will not happen in time to save this planet from its present
>woes.

Here I must take Peter's side.  The details are still being worked out
on sustainability for the Mars mission.  Anyway, even if we have all or
most of the technology, the environmental ravage of trying to send a
significant number of people "offline" would probably outstrip the
current levels of damage.  Or maybe Bob has the inside scoop on
how to fold space?

> >>What I find so healthy and refreshing about instinctos is that they
> >>unlike vegans seem so devoid of any feelings of guilt,...What is
>>> guilt anyway but an internalized critical voice telling the child in us
>>>hat we are "bad",...

The source of the guilt is compassion.  Are you really saying that it is
refreshing to you when people ignore or have lost their compassion?

Peter says:
> P.S. Bob, In the all the catching up I forget to congratulate you on
> your new job as NH M2M coordinator.

Yeah, ditto.

Cheers,
Martha