>I have a little question, Who's to say these supposedly spritual people
>were so great after all?  And which authoritarian paradigm of
>spirituality are we using?  I myself don't believe or disbelieve in
>spirituality, but I do notice that everyday I wake up and find my senses
>focused on this earth realm, and I notice that even some of the most
>supposedly spiritual people are taking poor care of the earth.

Zephyr, are you really as hostile as this post makes you sound?  I
wonder whom you're talking about here, and, to paraphrase you, whose
definition of spirituality you're using.  Most of the people that would fit into
my definition lead very simple lives, not nearly as destructive as your
average mindless-pleasure-seeking, or your orthodox-religious people
for that matter.  That may not be saying a lot, but  I don't feel we should
lay the blame at their door when they're just existing within the context of
the world and, as I said, doing better than most.

> (snip some more hostile-sounding stuff) ... I feel it's putting the cart
>before the horse, or rather the fruit before planting the fruit tree,
>(which is sadly necessary in this day and age of no more world-wide
>canopy).

Lest you misunderstand me, let me just say that I'm with you on the
environmental cause.  In my wildest fantasies, though, I don't see how
we could ever revert to a hunter-gatherer people a la prehistory, nor
would I want to.  My vision runs more towards the things you talked
about in a previous post, like transforming agriculture to sustainability
through biodynamics, composting, etc. etc., people growing as much of
their own food at home as possible, reducing the need for said
agriculture, eliminating factory farms, allowing or even assisting large
areas of land to revert to natural habitat....  I could go on and on, but I
won't try everyone's patience by doing so.     :-)
Too bad you'll be away for a couple of weeks.  I shall have a long wait
for your reply as you wade through your 200+ posts upon returning.

Cheers,
Martha