>> Factory farms aside, I am not so sure that killing another animal
>>involves much suffering. For one thing a huge rush of endorphines...
>Peter, do you not think that absolute terror is suffering? I do. The
>early roots of my vegetarianism were in a high school anthropology
>class. Some tribesmen were holding a pig so that another could cut its
>throat. They were not tormenting it in any way. The eyes and
>squealing of that pig while being held and then while its throat was
>being cut are an image I still carry with me 25 years later.
I am questioning how much that pig really felt. I believe that nature
has blessed us with a mechanism that puts all creatures in a state of
shock when faced with overwhelming psychological or physical trauma.
>>But if I do need some meat in my diet (I do not know yet as I have
>>not tried)
It is not an easy decision, but ultimately the only way to find out is
to try it.
>Why would you try meat to see if you need it?
Because I feel something is missing in my diet.
> Are you having symptoms of deficiency?
I believe so. Rarely seeming really satisfied and lacking resilience in
the nervous system for starters. There could be dozens of other reasons
for sure, but the evidence in favor of at least including small amounts
of RAF's to ones diet is quite convincing. As this subject seems to
really have grabbed your interest maybe you should contact Chet Day and
get some back issues of his Health & Beyond. For a few dollars you will
find (in my unbiased opinion :-)) real cutting edge journalism and some
truly fascinating reading from the forefront of natural hygiene that
gives some validity to some of what I am saying. I am by no means the
only (raw) vegan who is having second thoughts these days.
>While dairy and eggs are certainly preferable to meat in the killing
>department, you as vegans must know that killing is involved. Since
>these are industries that exploit the reproductive outputs of females,
>very few males are needed for the continuation of the operation. Male
>offspring are usually sold to be raised for meat or, in the case of
>male chicks, often killed upon hatching.
I would by no means want to support this cruel industry, but would buy
my organic free range eggs from my local farmers market.
>I see your point here, but I wouldn't say the vegan road is the easy
>way out! It's pretty darned hard to live a life in society as a
>vegan, much less.a raw vegan. Which is why I haven't made it yet.
It was very easy for me to give up meat. A hell of a lot easier than it
is now trying it reintroduce to my diet. I have so much self-identity &
emotion tied up with not eating meat it is ridiculous, which makes me
wonder if not veganism is for people with poor self-esteem.
>As a member of the almost-vegan community, "I feel your pain." But I
>still wonder why you want to first try animal products, rather than
>some (gasp) cooked thing like beans or seitan.
Cooked foods concern me. So do highly refined products like seitan &
tofu. But, who knows maybe I will try them in small amounts.
>Peter, earlier you wrote that veganism might be harmful to the planet
>in the long run. Here, you're holding up longevity as an ideal. To
>me it seems that human longevity itself is bad for the planet,
>especially if we still plan to reproduce.
I was afraid somebody would pick on this apparent discrepency.:-/ But
if we all led a healthy lifestyle that was based on harmony &
sustainability, maybe longevity would not be something to be avoided.
If people would stop eating foods that are in conflict with their
biological nature & needs maybe they would not need to compensate
through mindless consumption or having more children than neccessary.
Maybe it is not a coincidence that the USA while maintaining the same
standard of living as Western Europe has double the energy consumption
as well as a diet that is twice as bad.
Best, Peter
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