Peter said:
>>What do Aajonus, Bruno and Ronald have in common. Answer: Their
>>attitude to parasites which they, depending on the circumstances,
>>believe  are either harmless or have a beneficial, healing effect on
>>the body.

Michael said:
>What is this based on?  Is there any scientific type evidence backing
>this up?

As far as I know it is all based on faith & anecdotal experience.

Michael said:
>This statement also indicates that they think you can/will get
>parasites from eating RAF but that they are not harmful as opposed to
>thinking that you will not get parasites.

That is correct. The thought takes a little getting used to.

Michael said:
>Personally the main thing preventing me from eating things like raw
>meat is concern about parasites.  I don't know if I'd be eating 2-3
>pounds of it every day if this were resolved but would feel more open
>about trying it.

Have you read Ron Schmid's "Native Nutrition" yet? He carries the most
weight on this issue as he is an ND who has been eating fish, mainly in
its raw state, 3 times a day for the past 20+ years.

Michael said:
> But I do start thinking about all the pollution in
>the rivers and ocean and then decide maybe its not such a great idea.
>Pollutants can really accumulate in the larger fatter (and tastier)
>fish like tuna and mackeral.  Add the possibility of getting fish
>parasites and I usually pass.

This is a concern which was also addressed by Kirt. There are no easy
answers but to do our best to find the highest quality you can.

Jim said:
>It is difficult to understand all what you are saying since I don't
>know what all those abbreviations mean. "NH" is Natural Hygiene, okay,
>but "NFL" probably isn't the National Football League.

Jim, Welcome to raw-food, which has roughly 100 subscribers from
Europe, and North & South America.

NFL = "Natures First Law" - a very provocative book that came out last
year proposing that a fruit-based, raw, vegan mono diet will solve most
of the problems of mankind.
SAD = Standard American Diet
RAF  = Raw Animal Foods.
BMT= Beneficial Microbe theory
IMHO=In my Humble Opinion

>Because I believe that God created the world in perfect order, and
>that it has fallen, gives me a different outlook than what I''ve read
>so far in your postings. I hope and expect that I may be able to see
>things from a different angle than you all, which is a good thing.

You bet. Diversity of thought is what this list is all about.

Jean Louis:
>Read in "Ces merveilleuses graines germees", by Max Labbe: sprouting
>increases by 450% the contents of lentils in vitamin B12.

Christian said:
<Is this bioactive cobalamin? Due to the latest research they claim now
>that most of the vegetarian/vegan sources of B12 (yeast, dulse,
>sauerkraut etc.) is only an analogue and *not usable* by the
>body.

I believe that it is a pretty established fact the "B12" from plant
sources are analogues and not the real thing. To my knowledge even
vegan diet gurus like the MD's Michael  Klapper, Neal Bernard, John
McDougal & Dean Ornish believe vegans should supplement with B12.

Christian said:
>But to my knowledge *all commercially rised animals' food is
>fortified with B12 (bacteria colonies)*. No wonder it shows up in the
>tissues. I heard that they wouldn't thrive without it(!)

They are probably lacking B12 because of all the antibiotics they are
fed.

Christian said:
>The whole B12 thing is a very complicated and frustrating thing to me
>(beeing severly deficient according to blood test)

B12 deficiency is nothing to play with and has in some rare cases
caused irreversible nerve damage. If you are still eating eggs, I am
surprised that your levels are that low - maybe eggs do not contain
any? If you are not willing to eat some RAF, your only other option is
to supplement.

Tom said:
>Because much of the apple crop from Washington state is cold-
>storage, this writer avoids purchasing Washington apples, except for
>new crop. Instead I purchase California apples, and buy them only if
>they are in season. Even an organic apple, if it is out of season, has
>almost surely been held in cold storage.

I usually find the red delicious that can be bought all year around in
the natural food stores to be quite tasty.
Are these the ones that you think taste like cardboard?

Jean Louis said:
>Moreover, I really believe that Perfect Health with a Perfect Diet is
>a myth that too many promoters of a particular diet (raw vegan,
>instincto, nut frutarianism or whatsoever) use to attract people in
>their system. It is too easy to blame generations of bad habits when
>there is something wrong.

Is that ever true.

Jean-Louis said:
>In conclusion, I don't want to be part of Burger's "system", even if I
>make a few "mistakes". Many other factors can undermine my health, and
>maybe perfect health is an idealistic aim like Nirvana that we will
>never reach.

But do not forget that if you shoot for the stars you will reach the
moon. :-)

Jean-Louis said:
>Remember that wild animals have illnesses too (see Jane Goodall's
>book), and that among the living humans, very few are "enlightened"
>(maybe none).

That nature is not perfect I think is an idea that is a threat to many
diet idealists. They have so many hopes & expectations invested in
their lifestyle that they simply cannot afford Nature to have any
flaws. The illusion of perfection is what it takes for some to regain
control of their inner turmoil and is probably why so many emotionally
unstable people are attracted to raw foods. - Sorry Denis. :-)

Jean-Louis said:
>I read his book 3 or 4 times: now, I almost know it by heart... Andre
>Paillet's homepage also provided some informations when it was still
>accessible

Who is Andre Paillet and what has he written?  Also, I hope you will
not forget to answer my question to you about Maillards molecules.

Peter said:
>>Roy, so you bought "We Want To Live" Let us know how you like it?

Roy said:
>I have mixed feelings about the book. On the positive side, I like the
>format: an upfront narrative, with the "meat" relegated to appendices
>towards the end of the book, with an intermediate section that
>summarizes raw food sources and health problems/solutions. I also
>think that this proposed diet would be an easier entry into Raw for
>newcomers, such as my wife. (I think that of all the raw books, this
>is the most likely candidate for my 'non-raw' friends/family to last
>more than a couple of pages into.)

You must have a very open-minded family. I find "Nourishing Traditions"
by Sally Fallon to be a better choice. I gave it to my mom for
Christmas, and she was absolutely delighted with it.

Roy said:
>I also found some "zone-like" underpinnings in his book, since he
>is very sensitive to maintaining the insulin/sugar balance. His method
>though is to add fat to the sugar, without any corresponding protein.

The zone maintenance diet has an increased fat/protein ratio so they
are really not that far apart, and judging by Aajonus's very muscular
physique and the fact that he never works out, he is certainly not
deficient in protein.

Roy said:
>On the negative side, I'm disappointed that he is not totally raw.

I like that he eats a little cooked. Do not forget that virtually all
(but very few) successful long time raw foodists eat a little cooked
food now & then. This way they keep from feeling deprived and going on
binges. I am sure they like everybody else were raised on cooked foods,
and that they will always have a lot of emotional attachments to them.

Roy said:
>The author seems too eager to whip out a slice of french bread.

I find that hard to swallow too.

Roy said:
>I'm rather skeptical of his claim about the value of cooked starches.
>(If it is a matter of assimilation efficiency, I'm willing to eat
>"X'n'" times the requisite quantity in equivalent raw.)

Me too. He makes no effort to back up these claims.

Roy said:
>I'm wary of his method of disguising the meat with "dressings" like
>honey and egg yoke. It would appear to me that in the cases of RAF one
>might want to give one's instinct an opportunity to reject the RAF.

I agree. Yet, humans are complex beings who need to be stimulated
socially and creatively, and if these outlets are blocked, only very
few people are able to stick to a raw-based diet.

Roy said:
>I was also rather skeptical of some of the anecdotes in the book,
>particularly the one describing the hatha yogis and the aprodisiac
>properties of the particular fruit combinations. Other anecdotes
>about his vision quests, his memories of early life, etc, seem
>rather far fetched IMO.

They do. But if you had met him, you would be lapping it all up. He is
very convincing in public and after having met him, I do not care quite
so much that the lines in his book between fact and fantasy are so
blurred.

Roy said:
>Overall, I'm happy I invested the time and money into this book.
>I plan to send in my check to get his resources guide. I would call
>this a "must read" for the raw fooder. If Aajonus writes another
>book, I will certainly buy and read it.

Great review - thanks!

Best, Peter
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