>Zephyr here,
>look how the urban vegan lifestyle creates so much more havoc, death,
>deforestation,

I think you're wrong about this Zephyr.  Any vegan lifestyle involves
less "havoc, death, and deforestation" than an equivalent
raising-animals-to-kill-for-food lifestyle.  Growing one pound of animal
flesh for consumption utilizes many times (I think we may be talking
thousands of times) more earth resources, especially deforestation, than
raising vegan foods for consumption.  Read "Your Heart Your Planet" by
Harvey Diamond for starters.  I can cite other sources if you like.

Bob Avery ([log in to unmask])