John,
I’m going to take parts here and there of what you said.  Can’t do otherwise.



> On Dec 11, 2019, at 5:01 PM, john wymore <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
>> On Dec 11, 2019, at 2:30 PM, Philip Brownell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>> John
>> Consider what you are suggesting.
> 
> OK
> 
> 
>> Please tell me how this “idiot” is able to stimulate an economy, renegotiate NAFTA, get NATO members to pony up, reduce unemployment, get minorities to really evaluate how well off they’ve been under democratic rule, and finally challenge China (like we should have done decades ago) if he is truly… well, an idiot?
> 
> Really ?? You credit him with all that?  The stimiulation of the economy was underway before he took office.  The tax break helped a little bit but has now worn off.  Tarrifs?  Are you including  that?  That’s a wash at best.  Mostly its left world trade in a confused state. (as well as local)  But then you're probably agaisnt globalization any way. He couldnt have done NAFTA without Nancy.  Yeah a little bit and left NATO wandering whether they had a US member at all. Do they still trust that the US would honor Article 5? What’s this about minorites being well off? Should they expect Better Living Through Trump? Muslims won’t , Mexican judges can’t , Women?  ah ha Wake up Donald,  They’re not minorities any more. 
> I would not put it pass China to be willing  to start a war. And I dont put it pass DJT to do it either. There better be some diplomacy somewhere. Same with North Korea.
> Leavinging the Paris accords, the Iran sanctions, chummy with the Saudis and Putin, his hollowing out of the State Department, ignoring the US intelligence  agencies, no inerest in receiving daily intelligent briefings, and maybe most (to me) dangerous of all sabotaging the American Press.  “Enemy of the Peope”??  “Don’t believe anything you read or hear” he urged. Is all this (and the list goes on) OK with you?
> ;
>> Also, consider that he was elected by majority in the electoral college, which doesn’t mean that just the larger populations on the east and west coast cities voted for him, but that he turned rust belt states and captured a majority of people in the middle. How does the idiot keep winning?
> 
> Well one reason might be that there are idiots that voted for him and keep supprting him.  But in fact he doesnt keep winning. Oh yeah and this:  Impeachment by definition is brought on an ELECTED president. 
> 
>> 
>> The easy answer is that he is destroying out democracy.
> 
> Yes that is the answer
> .
>> Which is more destructive of a democracy, that someone is duly elected who differs from the political establishment and intelligentsia, or the once duly elected an insurgency arises that uses unethical, illegal, and self-appointed means to block him and remove him from office–yes, a coup.
> 
> Rather a stupid comparison, Phil.  You want to reword that?  AND the insurgency got caught because an American Institution worked.  (I assume you’re talking about the FBI and IG
> 
> 
> Peaceful transition of power? That used to be something I thought characterized our democracy and made it stand out.  No more.  Our systems of government are corrupt, and perhaps they’ve been that way for some time.  The rhetoric from both sides is self serving.  
> 
> Yeah that’sthe  why it sounds.  But one  side is right and the other side is dead wrong. The right (i.e.,tje correct side is just not very clever.  If the  press were really doing  its job, it would piss off the right even more.
> 
>> 
>> Is it idiotic to wonder if Rick Perry is correct?
> 
> Of course its idotic to “wonder” if Perry is correcrt.   Because he’s not correct . What’s more that kind of claim is not be uttered in the political public.  Separation of Church and State?  Pompeo said something similar. 
> 
>> It is if you don’t believe what the Bible says about God appointing leaders.  Or if you don’t believe in God. Then, when the light strikes your particular crystal, it sheers off in a dark shade of crimson and you just “see red.”
> 
> God  is not invited to appoint leaders in the US. In fact, He’s (to be polite) prohibited
> 
> And, please, the thing about “light striking my particular crystal and sheering off” is kind of interesting.  What does it mean?
> 
>> 
>> Your fantasy is pure Machiavellian.
> 
> Not really. I just acknowledged that such dastric ideas enter my awareness in difficult times.  Never in yours? 
> 
> 
> 
>> So, the FBI attorney who fabricated evidence that was used to deceive the FISA court was justified? The means justify the ends. I have to say, it is both humorous and alarming to watch people who have been crying wolf for three years suddenly twist themselves into pretzels justifying the lies, the mismanagement, the lack of supervision (and THAT is being kind and really reducing things I believe), that is evident in Horowitz’s report.  
> 
> You are cheery  picking what Horowitz said.  And I said nothing in the attempt  to deceive the FISA court. They got caught , as  I said earlier, the  IG  did his job.
> However, depots will eventually have to be removed by any means necessary, dont  you agree?  The Bible says that some place, doesnt it?
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> Just set all this beside what a bunch if idiots did when they broke into the Watergate and tried to steal information on THAT opposing political party and candidate.  THAT was small in scope compared to this.  THAT was the president trying to smudge the truth, but this involves major established institutions in our society: FBI, CIA, and colluding/enabling news media 
> 
> And an ignorant, bullying prfesident who does not foresee the results of  his actions 
> 
>> 
>> It is really screwed up.  And the back and forth between the two ends of the polarity have usurped our energy and attention ever since the election.  How long do we have to put up with this?  
> 
> Until he’s impeached or defeated.  I worry , if he is not impeached , we can get another year of disastrous government.  If he is not gone our only hope is that we have a new congress that takes hold
> 
>> Let’s have the election right now.  The democrats would lose because the country is fed up.
> 
> I would say that the democratrs will win because the country is fed up.  Now there is the puzzle.  How is that the country became so divided?  How is that the two factions see things so radically different? The same language, tghe  same culture, the  same nation, the  same loyalties (maybe they are different , but how  come? ) we have the same evolved  brain which receive the  same input but then things change.  How come and in what way?
> Give THIS some attention.
> 
>> JW
> 
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______________
Gstalt-L is an independent eCommunity of people interested in gestalt therapy theory and its various applications. Its public archives can be found at http://listserv.icors.org/scripts/wa-ICORS.exe?A0=GSTALT-L, and subscriptions can be managed by clicking on "Subscriber's Corner," which is found at the archives.