I have an idea if I continue this discussion it will be fruitless. I just
hoped there might be a better understanding between the groups. Though, I
suspect, if the one Christian Church can't be brought together as yet. I
can't even expect what I say to make a difference. If better and more
perfectly trained people in exegesis, and hermeneutics before me have tried
and have failed. I do want to apologize for the wrong I did you in
posting the biblical reference in my last post. It was done from a spirit
of uncharity.
Which was uncalled for on my behalf. I trust you will all forgive me. I
ought to know better than to exhibit such a proud and such an unloving
attitude.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Angel" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
> You are right. God allows much with which he doesn't approve. Just look
> at all sorts of ungodly practices practiced by many these days.
> Homosexual marriage being one such practice. On that we agree. But, that
> wasn't what the discussion was about. I was attempting, again to explain
> why the Saints of all ages share in the living body of Christ, and why we
> believe they are constantly interceding for us on our behalf to the lord
> our God. So many lack sufficient understanding of why requests for
> saintly intercession is practiced by so many, and why so many are
> comforted by this knowledge. That was all. Of course you are free to
> believe what it is you choose. As we all are.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "john schwery" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 3:16 PM
> Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
>
>
>> Because God allowed it, doesn't mean that He approved it.
>>
>> earlier, Angel, wrote:
>>>We aren't talking about necromancy here. Even if what you say is true,
>>>God allowed Saul to be visited by Samuel. When he was called up from the
>>>dead. Also, if it were true, there wouldn't be an exhortation and a
>>>condemnation for those who actively practice necromancy. There are those
>>>who claim the spirit of Samuel was demonic in origin. But, if one
>>>believes totally in sola scriptura, as protestants do, the bible doesn't
>>>make that clear. Thus believing in that leans on protestant
>>>interpretation and protestant tradition to sustain such belief. In any
>>>case, The passage to which you refer is that conversation between Abraham
>>>and divies. In which Divies was requesting father Abraham to do
>>>something even the saints who have preceded us can not do. Because the
>>>saints' job is not to evangelize after they have left this world. Nor is
>>>it to provide room service for those residing in hell. Also, the saints
>>>regardless where is their residence have no obligation to any who are in
>>>hell. Also, The story to which you refer was one told by Jesus before his
>>>great sacrifice for us. Which sacrifice transfigured us all forever.
>>>Evangelizing is our job alone. As was stated in the great commission to
>>>the apostles that they go in to the whole world and preach the gospel to
>>>every creature. On the mount of Transfiguration Moses and Elijah was
>>>seen on that mount talking together with Jesus. Which disproves what you
>>>say about saints not being mobile between the two worlds. In fact, Saint
>>>Peter was so moved he suggested a monument should be erected to
>>>memorialize the occurrence. Further, at least one conversation did occur
>>>between Divies and father Abraham. As do those between the saints and
>>>us, assisted by the holy spirit.
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 1:17 AM
>>>Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
>>>
>>>
>>>Because there is a big void that seperates them from earth and hell. The
>>>ones in hell cannot for the sane reason. Only angels and evil spirits can
>>>come back and forth
>>>
>>>Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>>On Jul 26, 2014, at 1:05 AM, Angel <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>That sort of puts a constraint on just what it is they can do doesn't
>>>>it? If the angels, who are constantly praising God, as are we here on
>>>>earth without ceasing, and are given time to constantly serve us as
>>>>guardian Angels, ministering to our needs. If we can be constantly
>>>>praising God, both waking and sleeping, while we have jobs and raise
>>>>families here on earth. Why can't the saints intercede for us in
>>>>heaven, as we who live here in this plane of existence find time to pray
>>>>for those on this list who ask for prayer? While still praising God.
>>>>If we can find time in this temporal world to pray for those who request
>>>>it of us, then the saints, who live in a timeless eternity surely can
>>>>devote time, which isn't even an issue for them any longer to pray for
>>>>us. Especially so, because physical constraints such as the needs
>>>>presented by the physical body are not issues for them. Constant praise
>>>>to God in Heaven is understood, and is assumed by us as a primary
>>>>postulate by all the heavenly host, both angels and saints.
>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 12:38 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>They can not intercede for you only Jesus can the saints are in Heaven
>>>>where you remember the earth know more because you are to busy praising
>>>>The Lord read Luke 16.
>>>>
>>>>Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>>On Jul 25, 2014, at 8:57 PM, Angel <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>When the saints either living or dead intercede for us, we aren't
>>>>>praying to them. Just as I am not praying to you if I were to ask for
>>>>>your prayers for me. If I were wanting your assistance that I might
>>>>>endure a difficult time in my life. Also, as the second McCabe's isn't
>>>>>in your cannon, I won't even expect those scriptures to cancel out
>>>>>those which you quoted. As they would be dismissed. I will not engage
>>>>>in an argument regarding something without a possible satisfactory
>>>>>resolution for either of us. Prayers aren't offered up to our saints.
>>>>>In the same sense as I suspect was meant by your post. Rather the
>>>>>saints continue to exist conjoined with us as does Jesus, and the
>>>>>blessed Theotocos .
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 7:11 PM
>>>>>Subject: Praying to the dead
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>A few verses for those who think you can pray to dead ones. Like saints
>>>>>or relatives. Isaiah 8:19-20. 19. When someone tells you to consult
>>>>>mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people
>>>>>inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living.
>>>>>20. Consult God's instruction and the testimony of warning. If anyone
>>>>>does not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sent from my iPhone=
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