Mat,

If you are responding to my call for discipline, I wasn't necessarily
referring to leaving marks, although I have to admit when I was a kid and
was left a mark or to on the backside with a leather strap it made a bigger
impression on my outlook and respect for pops rather than my backside. I do
not believe in whipping kids into shape as a slavemaster, and yet I do not
believe the people I see in the stores with there kids tossing themselves
about in tantrums, smarting off the parents in insulant manner and the
parents just saying  "No honey you can't have that" while continuing to
push the cart and the child getting even more wild. I feel sorry for that
parent in 12 years. Does God's word mislead us when it says to not spare
the rod, or spare disciplines? It also tells us not to provoke our children
to anger as well. So there is a balance. And instructing them "why you
disciplined them"  is more important than the discipline itself. It is good
to see you with a young child as such, explain disciplines and why they
ought not do such things, that goes a long, long way to preventative
medicine. We were looked at like we were nuts talking to our kids like
adults and why burden them with the reasons why, but it proved to produce
responsible kids and I think later the nay-sayers  understood the reasoning
behind it. God's word says the beginning of knowledge is the fear of God.
And that means more than reverence and honor. If we didn't fear God, would
we, ourselves actually come to a place of accepting Christ? Think about
that for a minute. If we had no clue, no punishment in eternity in hell for
our actions, would we even come close to warming up to God? If we could do
all the things we desired in life and no disciplines or not payment for our
actions were to come about, would we continue doing them? What would we
have to gauge our selves to? I truly believe God sees our
relationship  development as first fear, because he is in fact to be feared
first out of the fact our eternity is held in his hands. But then it moves
to a point of wanting to get to know this God a little better. I mean we
have to fear him, so perhaps it is best to get to know what this God is all
about. Then it becomes a "Hey! This God loves me!" thing, and we beginning
to want to get closer to him and then we begin to want to please him. And
all those things we did before we knew him, we do not do now because we
want to not do them, not because we have to not do them. That, is the same
way in which I try to bring up my kids. First there is fear of punishments,
then there is getting to know them more, and them know me,  then hopefully
they will do things to honor my requests out of wanting to and not having
to. I'd guess the latter occurs fully when they are out on their own and
begin to respect the views from an adults perspective, but by the time they
are out of the house, they ought have  far, far less punishment or fear of
it, and more honor and respect doing things because we as parents asked
them to. Parenting teenagers must be experienced for sure hehehe. We need
to look much farther past the disciplines, they are only a tool to catch
the attention of wrong doing and then the real job comes, to make them
understand why or why not. Seems God has this challenge with us doesn't he?
Remember, that little baby you have, you are not raising a child, you are
raising a young woman.

Brad