Right Jon. I have just decided to pray for angel God wouldn't want us to argue if they won't hear dust off our sandals and move on.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jul 26, 2014, at 7:50 PM, john schwery <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Pat, you are kinder than I. Angel may sincerely believe this stuff but she is sincerely wrong. The stuff she is teaching is just not in the Scriptures in spite of her logic and taking verses out of context and giving false interpretations.
>
> earlier, Pat Ferguson, wrote:
>> John, that's correct. Amen!
>>
>> I don't mean what I'm saying to be unkind.
>>
>> I was raised a Catholic, and I don't understand most of what Angel is talking about.
>>
>> I'm praying for you, Angel that you will see the light and the truth. <smile>
>>
>> You are all loving! <smile>
>>
>>
>> Thanks much.
>>
>> Many Blessings,
>>
>> Pat Ferguson
>> "I can Do all Things Through Christ Who Strengthens Me." Phillippians 4:13.
>>
>> At 02:21 PM 7/26/2014, you wrote:
>>> Just more long-winded logic to support Catholic tradition.
>>>
>>> earlier, Angel, wrote:
>>>> Jesus is the only mediator for all mankind. Which is meant by the word men. In the same sense as man was created in the form of Adam. To seal the terms of the new Covenant. (first timothy 2 verses 1 through 6 makes this clear if read in context.)Saint Paul, in this passage commands us all to do just what we are doing. We are interceding. This is what the saints who are always alive in Christ, and are conscious in Christ, as are we are doing. Too fulfill the exhortation from Saint Paul in his letter to dear saint timothy. You will take note in the same passage, where saint Paul maintains Jesus is the mediator between Men and God, he doesn't exhort us not to use saints to mediate for us to God. Because Christ is the one and sole mediator. If he had meant that for us individuals, he surely would have made this clear in his letter to Timothy. Whatever we might say concerning Saint Paul, ambiguousness was not one vice possessed by him. Else, we on earth could not, and would have no right to intercede for each other while we reside on earth to the lord our God. We would have no right to ask anyone for prayer assistance at all. If Christ were truly the only mediator between us and God. The mediation of Christ, and the interceding of the saints either visible or invisible are two different concepts. About which there is no confusion at all by saint Paul in this passage. What then is the distinction made, and about which there is no confusion? The distinction is made in first timothy 2 verse 6 when it makes clear Christ's mediation regards the fact
>>>> he ransomed himself for us. Being the "man" who ransomed himself for us "men". Clearly referring to the sealing with his blood for us the terms of the new covenant. This is also amplified in another letter from saint Paul to the Hebrews In Hebrews chapter 9 verse 15 in this verse saint Paul says Christ is the mediator of a new covenant by means of death for the redemption of the transgressions of the first covenant. Also, in Hebrews chapter 12 verse 24.
>>>> Where it talks about the mediation of the new covenant in the blood of Christ. An obvious reference to the death of our Lord as it relates to the new covenant. Which proves there is a difference between the mediation of Christ, and the interceding all saints are commanded to do by saint Paul. Which also makes clearer the mediation which belongs to Christ alone is between the whole human race and God. The man who is also the complete God incarnate is the only one who can mediate between God and the human race. Made manifest by his death and resurrection. Which paid for our sins. Without which, there would be no need for any intercession by any saint. Jesus, by his mediation gave to us the privilege to intercede at all. Without the sole mediation of Christ, we would never be able at all to entreat God for anything at all. Regardless on which plane we reside. Because the entirety of the saints compose the body of Christ. There is no separation of the members of the body of Christ. This is why the great cloud of witness is so important. Because we all are equally members of the body of Christ. The saints can not mediate, as referenced by these passages, to reinforce the new covenant. Jesus did that when he ransomed himself for us. But, we and they can and do intercede on our behalf to the lord our God. ----- Original Message ----- From: "john schwery" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 6:03 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Angel, why not? Because there is only 1 mediator between God and man, the man,Christ Jesus. You are giving those who have gone on before us, attributes that only God has. You are in a dangerous position, breaking the first commandment. You are putting your own spin on topics, using logic that won't work.
>>>>>
>>>>> earlier, Angel, wrote:
>>>>>> That sort of puts a constraint on just what it is they can do doesn't it? If the angels, who are constantly praising God, as are we here on earth without ceasing, and are given time to constantly serve us as guardian Angels, ministering to our needs. If we can be constantly praising God, both waking and sleeping, while we have jobs and raise families here on earth. Why can't the saints intercede for us in heaven, as we who live here in this plane of existence find time to pray for those on this list who ask for prayer? While still praising God. If we can find time in this temporal world to pray for those who request it of us, then the saints, who live in a timeless eternity surely can devote time, which isn't even an issue for them any longer to pray for us. Especially so, because physical constraints such as the needs presented by the physical body are not issues for them. Constant praise to God in Heaven is understood, and is assumed by us as a primary postulate by all the heavenly host, both angels and saints.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 12:38 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They can not intercede for you only Jesus can the saints are in Heaven where you remember the earth know more because you are to busy praising The Lord read Luke 16.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 25, 2014, at 8:57 PM, Angel <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When the saints either living or dead intercede for us, we aren't praying to them. Just as I am not praying to you if I were to ask for your prayers for me. If I were wanting your assistance that I might endure a difficult time in my life. Also, as the second McCabe's isn't in your cannon, I won't even expect those scriptures to cancel out those which you quoted. As they would be dismissed. I will not engage in an argument regarding something without a possible satisfactory resolution for either of us. Prayers aren't offered up to our saints. In the same sense as I suspect was meant by your post. Rather the saints continue to exist conjoined with us as does Jesus, and the blessed Theotocos .
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 7:11 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Praying to the dead
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A few verses for those who think you can pray to dead ones. Like saints or relatives. Isaiah 8:19-20. 19. When someone tells you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living. 20. Consult God's instruction and the testimony of warning. If anyone does not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone=
|
