In Hebrews chapter 12 we find the term "so great a cloud of witnesses".
A proper meaning of the use of the word witness in this context is not one
who sees us but rather those whose lives are a witness or testimony to us.
The context of Hebrews 11 is a compilation of what faith accomplished in the
lives of all of those Old Testament believers which is intended to be an
encouragement for us to also live our lives by faith in what God has
promised and given to us in His word, the scripture, for our daily practice.
If our life is a witness or testimony to what God has done for us then we
can speak the truth of the Gospel to the unsaved. If our life
witness/testimony is false, why should anyone believe what we say.
To reiterate, witness in the twelf chapter of Hebrews is a testimony to us.
If the Scripture means an eye-witness it will usually use that term also.
Listening for His shout!
Grant
-----Original Message-----
From: Angel
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 5:51 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Angel, Please first read Heaven is for real: a little boy's
astounding story of his trip to heaven and back.
I am not angry,, I apologize if it seems that I am,. I just can't
understand for the life of me why protestants find it so hard to believe in
some Catholic teachings, such as those claiming the Saints are interceding
for us constantly in heaven, and that they constantly are with us on earth
watching over us with our personal angels. They being the cloud of
witnesses of which Saint Paul spoke, and they so easily accept something
they read from a book shelf. Almost as if it were gospel itself? It seems
to me, protestants will bee almost willing to believe anything from almost
anyone who claims it to be true. Some are almost as bad as those who
believe the shroud of Turin is real. When Saint Paul didn't even recount
what he saw in heaven, and don't you think he would have at least raved
about how he saw Saint Steven there. If he saw him. Because, we know he
suffered from the guilt over the part he played in his martyrdom, if he saw
him in heaven. Why should I believe any modern recounts of heavenly
experiences. When, in order for A Saint to be canonized, two miracles must
be verified as having been done by that Saint. It is those recounting from
such Saints as Paul and John in whom I put my trust concerning heavenly
accounts. I ask, what is the litmus test to which you all have put this
recounting from this young man whom no one on the list knows personally?
Now I am not saying the experiences themselves aren't real experiences. I
am just saying why I don't believe they should be taken at face value. Only
God knows whether those experiences weren't hallucinations. My late husband
suffered from a load of those. Each of which seemed perfectly real to him.
I know what they were too, because he spoke each he saw.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donna Bell" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 5:56 AM
Subject: Re: Angel, Please first read Heaven is for real: a little boy's
astounding story of his trip to heaven and back.
> Hi All,
> I haven't read the book yet, but I intend too. My first reaction to
> what I'm reading is that this family needs our prayers, and
> compassion.
> Any book that talks about miracles should be weighed against scripture,
> but it seems like what happened to this little one is meant to encourage
> us.
> I haven't walked on water, or raised the dead, but God has saved my
> life more than once, and the testimonies from these events have lead
> people to salvation, which is what really matters.
> We'll know the book by it's fruit. Angel, I'm sorry you seem so angry.
> Blessings,
> Donna
> On 7/23/14, Phil Scovell <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> Then tell us everything that is theologically wrong with this miraculous
>> experience. I get the feeling you don't want to read this little book
>> and
>> I'm wondering why. Why do you want to argue what you believe when you
>> haven't read this book of a little boy's testimony confirmed by Scripture
>> from beginning to end. Are you worried it might challenge some of your
>> most
>> closely held beliefs?
>>
>> Phil.
>>
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