One further point:

I can't remember the guy's name and at this point I will have to leave this 
virtual coil of debate in a bit, but who do you think (for all the 
Goebbles-like onslaughts by the US press) is the most popular man in Canada 
over the past 50 years?  It's the former premier of British Columbia (or is 
it Alberta?) who came up with the basic formula for the Canadian health care 
system.

...And while we're at it, for those who take heart in the European economic 
crisis, I'm an old guy of almost 57 years.  I have heard that their 
so-called evil system was going to collapse at least 4 times in the past 40 
years. In the 1970's when the cold war was still at full tilt and the 
Socialist/Communist coalition won the elections in the late 70's in France; 
when Ronald Reagan won the election and Margaret Thatcher became his 
confidant in political matters; in the early 90's when there was a banking 
crisis of sorts and now again--with their current crisis.  In the previous 3 
examples, they have come back with their economies booming and I suspect 
that after all the propaganda in this country notwithstanding, they will do 
it again.  Incidentally, because of the stronger regulatory structure in 
Germany and France, their economies--while weak--are no where's near as bad 
off for the average person as they are in the USA.  Their unemployment is 
about 5 or 6 percent and they have developed a system wherein layoffs are 
rotated so that many people are still working part time--thus having 
significant residual buying power and also being less of a tax burden than 
totally unemployed people.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "colin McDonald" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: This has nothing to do with ham radio


absolutely.
Cuba has one of the best health care systems on earth for their general
population.
there might be allot of other things wrong with cuba, but their health care
is second to none.
I would venture to guess that the US is the only industrialized, first world
country that doesn't have a national health care system by which all
residents are treated to adequit and timely medical care without having to
pay for it directly.
Obviously taxes support a national health care system, but at least in other
countries, you don't have to pay your taxes, and pay for medical care on top
of that.
The american way seems to be pay, pay, and pay some more, and still not
receive adequit service or care.
I would say that a country more interested in trillion dollar wars may not
see a good healthcare system for their population as a priority.
Canada didn't always have a healthcare system either, but the one we have
now, though always problematic as any large national organization is, is
adequit and timely as far as care goes on the front line.
No one must pay out of pocket, or go into debt to stay healthy or to receive
care for an illness.  Or, stay sick because they can't pay.
We pay our federal and provincial taxes, and that is enough to provide basic
human needs for us.
what is the point in having a government, if that government won't even
assist the general population with basic human needs? sooers, running and
clean water, land, safety and security, healthcare, education and
employment.
those are absolute basics, and implementation of programs to meet those
needs doesn't fall under the definition of socialism.
Any government who is put in charge of a society or population can be said
to be socialist to one extent or another.
Socialism seems to be a catch all phrase for anything americans don't like
about federal programs.  Throw up that red flag named socialism and everyone
starts thinking about the soviet union, cuba, china, and the eastern block.
social programs does not equal communism, two totally separate things.
Capitalism and the "american way" can thrive and still do very well under a
higher level of "socialist" style programs and services.
You pay less as a citizen, and you have more opportunities for education and
healthcare and employment.  where is the negative here?
73
Colin, V A6BKX
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Howard Kaufman" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2010 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: This has nothing to do with ham radio


> They said the same thing about President Trumann.  Let's wait thirty years
> and then judge.
> The Health Care Reform act is a bad law, but it's a start to put us on a
> par
> with other industrialized nations.  The problem is it doesn't reform the
> system.  Money is made by curing catastrophic illnesses, not by preventing
> them.  Where do you think the brightest minds in medicine go?  Right to
> specialization rather than to primary care.
> America has the best health care in the world, that is if you have a
> million
> dollar illness like cancer.  Your child has a higher statistical chance of
> living to the age of five in Cuba than he or she does by being born in
> America.
> We fiddle while Rhome burns.