All protestants hold to some tradition. Which traditions hold the
dominations together.
----- Original Message -----
From: "john schwery" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
> Just more long-winded logic to support Catholic tradition.
>
> earlier, Angel, wrote:
>>Jesus is the only mediator for all mankind. Which is meant by the word
>>men. In the same sense as man was created in the form of Adam. To seal
>>the terms of the new Covenant. (first timothy 2 verses 1 through 6 makes
>>this clear if read in context.)Saint Paul, in this passage commands us all
>>to do just what we are doing. We are interceding. This is what the
>>saints who are always alive in Christ, and are conscious in Christ, as are
>>we are doing. Too fulfill the exhortation from Saint Paul in his letter to
>>dear saint timothy. You will take note in the same passage, where saint
>>Paul maintains Jesus is the mediator between Men and God, he doesn't
>>exhort us not to use saints to mediate for us to God. Because Christ is
>>the one and sole mediator. If he had meant that for us individuals, he
>>surely would have made this clear in his letter to Timothy. Whatever we
>>might say concerning Saint Paul, ambiguousness was not one vice possessed
>>by him. Else, we on earth could not, and would have no right to intercede
>>for each other while we reside on earth to the lord our God. We would
>>have no right to ask anyone for prayer assistance at all. If Christ were
>>truly the only mediator between us and God. The mediation of Christ, and
>>the interceding of the saints either visible or invisible are two
>>different concepts. About which there is no confusion at all by saint
>>Paul in this passage. What then is the distinction made, and about which
>>there is no confusion? The distinction is made in first timothy 2 verse 6
>>when it makes clear Christ's mediation regards the fact
>>he ransomed himself for us. Being the "man" who ransomed himself for us
>>"men". Clearly referring to the sealing with his blood for us the terms
>>of the new covenant. This is also amplified in another letter from saint
>>Paul to the Hebrews In Hebrews chapter 9 verse 15 in this verse saint Paul
>>says Christ is the mediator of a new covenant by means of death for the
>>redemption of the transgressions of the first covenant. Also, in Hebrews
>>chapter 12 verse 24.
>>Where it talks about the mediation of the new covenant in the blood of
>>Christ. An obvious reference to the death of our Lord as it relates to
>>the new covenant. Which proves there is a difference between the mediation
>>of Christ, and the interceding all saints are commanded to do by saint
>>Paul. Which also makes clearer the mediation which belongs to Christ alone
>>is between the whole human race and God. The man who is also the complete
>>God incarnate is the only one who can mediate between God and the human
>>race. Made manifest by his death and resurrection. Which paid for our
>>sins. Without which, there would be no need for any intercession by any
>>saint. Jesus, by his mediation gave to us the privilege to intercede at
>>all. Without the sole mediation of Christ, we would never be able at all
>>to entreat God for anything at all. Regardless on which plane we reside.
>>Because the entirety of the saints compose the body of Christ. There is
>>no separation of the members of the body of Christ. This is why the great
>>cloud of witness is so important. Because we all are equally members of
>>the body of Christ. The saints can not mediate, as referenced by these
>>passages, to reinforce the new covenant. Jesus did that when he ransomed
>>himself for us. But, we and they can and do intercede on our behalf to
>>the lord our God. ----- Original Message -----
>>From: "john schwery" <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 6:03 AM
>>Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
>>
>>
>>>Angel, why not? Because there is only 1 mediator between God and man,
>>>the man,Christ Jesus. You are giving those who have gone on before us,
>>>attributes that only God has. You are in a dangerous position, breaking
>>>the first commandment. You are putting your own spin on topics, using
>>>logic that won't work.
>>>
>>>earlier, Angel, wrote:
>>>>That sort of puts a constraint on just what it is they can do doesn't
>>>>it? If the angels, who are constantly praising God, as are we here on
>>>>earth without ceasing, and are given time to constantly serve us as
>>>>guardian Angels, ministering to our needs. If we can be constantly
>>>>praising God, both waking and sleeping, while we have jobs and raise
>>>>families here on earth. Why can't the saints intercede for us in
>>>>heaven, as we who live here in this plane of existence find time to pray
>>>>for those on this list who ask for prayer? While still praising God.
>>>>If we can find time in this temporal world to pray for those who request
>>>>it of us, then the saints, who live in a timeless eternity surely can
>>>>devote time, which isn't even an issue for them any longer to pray for
>>>>us. Especially so, because physical constraints such as the needs
>>>>presented by the physical body are not issues for them. Constant praise
>>>>to God in Heaven is understood, and is assumed by us as a primary
>>>>postulate by all the heavenly host, both angels and saints.
>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2014 12:38 AM
>>>>Subject: Re: Praying to the dead
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>They can not intercede for you only Jesus can the saints are in Heaven
>>>>where you remember the earth know more because you are to busy praising
>>>>The Lord read Luke 16.
>>>>
>>>>Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>>On Jul 25, 2014, at 8:57 PM, Angel <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>When the saints either living or dead intercede for us, we aren't
>>>>>praying to them. Just as I am not praying to you if I were to ask for
>>>>>your prayers for me. If I were wanting your assistance that I might
>>>>>endure a difficult time in my life. Also, as the second McCabe's isn't
>>>>>in your cannon, I won't even expect those scriptures to cancel out
>>>>>those which you quoted. As they would be dismissed. I will not engage
>>>>>in an argument regarding something without a possible satisfactory
>>>>>resolution for either of us. Prayers aren't offered up to our saints.
>>>>>In the same sense as I suspect was meant by your post. Rather the
>>>>>saints continue to exist conjoined with us as does Jesus, and the
>>>>>blessed Theotocos .
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Carter" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>Sent: Friday, July 25, 2014 7:11 PM
>>>>>Subject: Praying to the dead
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>A few verses for those who think you can pray to dead ones. Like saints
>>>>>or relatives. Isaiah 8:19-20. 19. When someone tells you to consult
>>>>>mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people
>>>>>inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living.
>>>>>20. Consult God's instruction and the testimony of warning. If anyone
>>>>>does not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sent from my iPhone=
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