I agree.  Not being on a total paleo diet myself, just believing in its intrinsic value, of sorts, I also enjoy reading all sides of the debate.  I don't want a list where everyone is a "pulpit pounder" of "one size fits all".  I want the opportunity to read, ponder, and decide for myself.  
 
Case in point...years ago I joined a rawfeeding list for dogs, cats, and whatever other kind of animals eat the same way.  I learned an awful lot, yes, I did, and those people opened my eyes in ways I never would have thought.  But eventually, questions in my own mind came up, and they just "thumped me", pretty much called me stupid if I didn't adhere to their "doctrine", so screw it.  (Sorry.)  Some friends and I started our own group, with open discussion and thoughts...no one is considered "totally right", and all thoughts are welcome and invited.  
 
I don't care HOW educated a person is...they can't possibly know all the inter-workings of any kind of living being, nope.  All we can do is observe, see what works for us and ours, impart that knowledge to others, who may have had a totally different experience that worked for them, and live and learn.  
 
I honestly don't feel like the no-carbers dominate this room, but that's just me.  I enjoy the debate and the give and take.  I wouldn't mind seeing other opinions, nope, but I appreciate the diversity of this group and am really not looking elsewhere at this point.  If the some-pro-carbers all leave, well, then, what are we left with???  I guess I feel like it's the search-for-someone-who-totally-agrees-with-me syndrome, but again, that's just me.  I would be sad if you guys left, I would.  I really don't want to join five hundred different groups just to get opinions, sigh.  Same reason I have the rawfeeding group...I don't agree with all of them, but at least it's all in one place and a person can give credence to, or not, any and all opinions.  It's food for thought, if nothing else.  It's actually scarey to me when people want to just find somewhere where everyone agrees with them.  That means no questioning, no learning.....
 
Love,
Bren


Years (30) ago I began gaining weight around the time puberty began. Although I did not over eat, I followed the SAD, was active in sports in school, hiking, camping, skiing... When I was 15 I was diagnosed with an endocrine disorder and was insulin resistant. I was put on a low fat, high carb diet. Parents, as they are, felt that being vegetarian would help. However, the weight kept piling on, eventually my menstrual cycle stopped. When I was 21 I was given the catch-all diagnosis of poly cystic ovarian syndrome, and was encouraged to keep to my diet. As the years passed, I became sicker and sicker, weight kept rising, migraines started. Cortisol levels were high. I was on lots of medications. Long story short, I was not getting better, and developed type 2 diabetes. After much research, I decided that western medicine, while it has its place and can sometimes be beneficial, was as brainwashed as everyone else into believing high levels of carbs,
 fruits, breads and pastas, and low protein and fats, was the "answer to all health concerns". 

In my case, it was hogwash. Any form of carb, including most fruits, all nuts, and many seeds, exasperated my health problems. My decision was made, and I began eating what is now called the paleo "diet". One of my doctors disowned me as a patient. Good ridance, I say. 

I am now almost 42. For the past 12 years I have been following a mostly paleo eating style. I do give in to the rare chocolate cake urge (which I regret as the side effects are a million times worse than any hangover believable). 

On this list, I appreciate the views of everyone who makes the effort to post. Sometimes someone irritates me, but that is what the delete button is for. 

Too many times in life people are told to get out for thinking or having differing opinions. People threaten to leave if we are not all of one mind. However, we are not clones. We are individuals. Its nice hearing differing opinions on a subject we are all passionate about. 

I don't see why anyone needs to be quiet for offering a view on the paleo woe. In my case, it has saved my life. BTW, I am no longer taking any meds for my conditions, including diabetes which has disappeared. I eat up to 3 pounds of meat on a very hungry day (lots of fats). My bad cholesterol is way down, triglicerides have gone amazingly way down, I had my first bone density scan and have no sign of deterioration. I am no longer amenhoreic (sp?). 

My headaches have virtually disappeared ( the occasional hormonal migraine does strike). 

I enjoy what everyone has to say on this subject. 

Thanks!

Trish
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From:         "Ron Hoggan, Ed. D." <[log in to unmask]>

Date:         Wed, 26 Aug 2009 20:35:25 
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Another Paleo list?


Hi Ken, Robert, and Inci,

Is it so difficult to allow others to express their zero carb perspective?
The comment: "after many warnings about its danger to bone health, etc."
suggests that the issue is one of intolerance rather than anyone
"monopolizing" the list. 

You could, of course, start another listserv, but why not debate the issues
instead of expressing intolerance?   You might also have a look at the other
side of the issue and grant that there may be some merit in it. For
instance, if bone health is such an issue in zero carb, why didn't
Stefansson and Anderson notice any evidence of bone disease among the Inuit
during their years of careful observation in the Arctic? Further, a small
number of children, after years of following a ketogenic diet for cancer or
epilepsy, have not been reported to experience compromised bone health
despite careful observation.  There are even some members of this listserv
who have spent years on a zero carb diet. I'd be interested in hearing if
any of them has also monitored their bone density or had any indication of
bone weakness, pain, or disease.

On the other hand, many vegetarians from some parts of India (where there is
abundant sunlight for making vitamin D) show clear signs of osteopenia and
osteoporosis. According to the received wisdom you tout, their blood should
not need the bone calcium to buffer acidity due to meat consumption. What
has caused their compromised bone health?

There are, of course, many other factors involved in the examples mentioned
above, but they do offer compelling counter-examples for the speculative
perspective that excessive calcium is leeched from the bones to buffer
acidity caused by excessive meat consumption.  I'm very skeptical of this
perspective, but I'm open to looking at your evidence, data, and arguments.
I may continue to hold the opinion I started with but I may not.  

Nobody has all the answers. I, too, can get pretty dogmatic about some of
the stuff I think I know but discussion and debate often lead me to an
improved understanding. 

Best Wishes, 
Ron