Thank you as well Edie and May God accept your prayers. 

Edie Sidibeh <[log in to unmask]> wrote:  Thanks Brother Suntu and may God forgive us during this period of our search for truth "if" He feel disappointed on our recent conversation. May He forgive our enemies and prevents us from their harmful acts, May we all be led and guided to the true nature of our doubts regarding religion so that we can be able to carry out our duty without anquest and fear. May peace prevail in the world at last, May the sick be cared and the hungry be fed. May He open our eyes to see and realise this abundance He created to make live easier for all human-being, May we all attain to our individual desires in this hard journey of live thus having God in you alway make things easier. therefore may we all have the gut to carry Him wherever we go and thing of Him as our greator and saviour Amin.

Thanks you once more for having the patience and the gut in communicating with me to try to refurbish my mind even if it doesn't help much but it worth something to me and may God bless you for trying your best.

Edi

SUNTOU TOURAY wrote:
Thanks brother Edie, i got your points and that of masoud. what i elucidated earlier is that, human beings wish to have free and flexible ways of doing what pleases them. that is our choices which we shall be accountable. The vital issue that the Quran talked about is ''safe your self and family from the hell-fire". this means whatever one do ,he will be judged by that. just like our duties in our respective professions. musicians for instance are judged by men according the taste they have in that music, and products are judged according the quality,price etc. if you choose not to follow what the majority of people are doing, fine, but God state that " man is in error " "only those who follow his commandments and message will be saved from the torment of hell whose fuel is men and stones". the angel it is stated told God that " you created man and he will commit murder and blood shed and disobey your commands" God responded by saying " i know that which you do not know".
"there will be among men who will live their life's according to my commandments and they will forbid the evil and enjoin the good" also Edie you are right "actions speaks louder than words" that is why for a Muslims, performing the five daily Salat is of paramount importance, without which one is what the scholars 'a call muslim by name only' .some even state that you are not a Muslim at that material time until you recommence the prayers. one can be doing all the acts of worship yet he commit grave sins, that is still depend on the level of that person's fear God. as the English saying goes, '' the evil that you do shall live after you'' even the Hindus who don't believe in heaven or hell ,believe in Kama . but for a Muslim .he must believe in the six article of faith in Islam .1. believing in God as one, 2.believing in the Angel existence, 3. the Prophets and messengers, 4. the Reveal books, 5 predestination and 6 the day of judgement .this is where matters will be
decided as to whether one earn paradise or hell.

may God grant us all paradise .

Edie Sidibeh wrote:
Thanks again Suntu For not been offended in the process. What I wanted you to understand is the fact that, if there is a hell fire, there will be many poor people than rich, how can you be hustling to get you one meal a day, at the same time have full concentration on God? because during this period and time you will lie you can cheat or do anything to satisfy your desire and is all against the religions of God. 

I will quote from from my previous post that Gun kills and all Muslim, Christian Budhas, Hindus etc knows the fact that one should not kill your fellow human-being, so why are they putting all their wealth on buying weapons while people are dying of hunger? If they are honest in what they preaches to us about God. 

Again if there is Hell fire why then "Sarya" why can't they wait for the God's punishment to put the offender in hell fire? or are they suppose to do the God's for Him? God is more power that us I repeat, God did not need anything from us but to use our given organs to do good on earth. So how can fight for someone who is powerful than you are?

For example, If you are working regardless of the kind, you are doing it for your own pocket and health not for your boss even thus he/she is paying your salary every month. The same is God, He wants us to do things for our own progresses not for him but to recognise that we are here because of him like you are working because of the company's existence.

The only answer I can think of is earthly politics and greed to gain power whiles they definitely knew power belongs to only God and is an abomination to compete with your creator. Tell me now, or name one religious country which is doing exactly according to what their various religions preaches? If they preaching God's words to us yet we are seeing a big difference in their actions with what they preaches, should we still keep on believing what they preach? You must be foolish to let others preach you to throw yourself in fire whiles you know for certain is the end of your life. 

Again Brother, I will repeat, I believe in the prophets and their given testimonies then again I think there is some misspoken or written on their ordeal as prophet of God. To me, I don't know about you, ACTION SPEAKS LOUDER THAN WORDS and if your actions are contradicting your words, I will just pick the ones in your words that match my believe or life style and leave the rest.

Again if you read bible Quran or any other religious book, you will see lots of similarities in their DOS and DON*TS. So therefore brother, it does not matter to me because if you were following my argument, I said religion in general even thus every religion is unique on it own right but logically they are all the same as far as God worshipping is concern. Quran also say respect your religion as well as others. This is a clear picture it I may say, to show that every religion in important but because of the power struggle that came together with human nature, everyone wants to see their prevail on top. Religion is now-a-days like politics, whoever delivered the most will gain more recognition and therefore prevail on top. 



SUNTOU TOURAY wrote:
Edie, what you didn't make clear is where you stand with the reveal books of God. what religion you follow if any. because if you talk in general terms, we cannot find any way forward. i write from a perspective of a Muslim. if you believe in the validity and truthfulness of the Quran or the bible then, that is the starting point for your quest for clarity. what others say and do shouldn't matter to you. the quran is translated in English with commentaries. the bible likewise. the sayings of the prophet Muhammad is also translated in English. many people accept islam's teachings without discussing with any muslim. they only read the quran. some people also read the bible to be convince. don't worry about me, i am enjoying the exchange. 
what our people believe or say about the Arabs shouldn't be of any problem.
with masoud, this is a serious conversation. if you find it funny, even more interesting. 
one thing i would like make clear is that, WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BLAME THE SATAN FOR OUR ERRORS OR SINS. WE ARE GIVEN A WILL-POWER. AN INTERNAL WARNING SYSTEM THAT TELL US WHEN WE ARE ERRING.
the Satan is around. god only warns us about his existence and his manipulations. if we decided to invite him into our life's by doings thing that pleases him ,it is our choice.
we are all adults. we know when we are making mistakes.
i frimly believe that many understood the context i put the examples in so i don't need to go over them.


Haruna Darbo wrote:

Suntou, you are a very funny man. I just want you to know that.

[God is not doing any research on us.] Suntou.

How do you know that???

[he already new what you haruna will do from when your were a toddler to 
when you die even before that.] Suntou.

And yet She tests me if I will do exactly what She knew I would do. Then 
She destroys her own creation just to take inventory of what I had done from 
birth to death to evaluate her own hypotheses.

I guess we are prototypes of what She really intended to create on account 
of out genetic uniquenesses.

[Edie claims that he believe in God but he is confuse about certain things.] 
Suntou.

Me too. Masoud. But I'm not confused about divine research.

[The Satan blames man for his fall from grace and he is doing all he can for 
us too to incur the rapt of our creator.] Suntou.

Sounds like Shaitan's personal problem doesn't it?? And who created 
Shaitan??? I won't be bothered by Shaitan. I got my own problems.

[it's like the Mandingo saying ,bonoto kalafi anyun lella. a loser always 
wish for more losers.] Suntou.

Misery loves company.

[the Satan knows God very well. that is why when man sins he confess to not 
having any thing to do such a person. The Satan's problem is arrogance and 
pride.] Suntou.

Again Suntou, it sounds like Shaitan's personal problems to me.

[all man has to do is obey the commandments. the blue prints for our way to 
God is stated in his commandments. but since God knew what every man is going 
to do, we are only fulfilling a that knowledge not changing it or altering 
it.] Suntou.

Exactly. I obey the ten commandments of Moussa. But God/Allah is still 
conducting research on me for her own purposes. I obey the ten commandments 
because my parents taught me, and because they make sense for harmonious 
co-existence with my fellow man. I don't do it because I am a subject of God/Allah's 
research. For I am not aware of divine process there-in.

[we decide through our actions were our final destiny lies.] Suntou.

A final destiny that was pre-destined and chosen for us. How do you know I 
wouldn't like to choose another destiny different from Heaven or Hell???

[if you take God's words to be just fables, well and good, if you take them 
seriously again well and good.] Suntou.

Focus Suntou. You are digressing. We are not talking about God/Allah's words 
simply because people place their own interpretations on such. What we want 
to know is whether God/Allah is conducting research on us from your 
impression that She created us, created Shaitan, evicted us from Janna because we 
mis-behaved, led astray by Shaitan, placed us on earth to test us further, will 
recall us for judgement and inventory, will either place us in Hell or Heaven, 
continue to monitor us. What I wanna know is when will the research end????

[the message is clear. that is do good and give God his dues and you will 
attain eternal bliss.] Suntou.

Speak for yourself. Eternal bliss = research ad-infinitum. I look forward 
eagerly to the yield of such perpetual research.

[the basic requirement from us is to know God in the correct way, conduct 
the basic worship and live with him in mind.] Suntou.

Yes. And She will determine if we have done exactly what She had ordained.

[if that is too difficult to comprehend then, we may analyse our respective 
field of expertise and see who is wrong.] Suntou.

That wouldn't be necessary. It is not about who is wrong or right when it 
comes to divinity. It is about whether you have God/Allah in you.

[i will take Baba galeh here for instance, he is a great bloke, and 
intelligent fellow and highly qualified human being. yet he didn't say, i am bless 
with intelligence let me relax in Farafeni and my intelligence will guide me. 
he worked hard in school. he knew the field he is most capable of and he 
directed his energy on that path. he is already with a masters degree and has 
worked for high profile organisations. isn't that enough endeavour? to him no, he 
is now pursuing a doctorate degree. why is Baba doing all that? is it easy 
attaining a masters degree? no. how many hours do one has to put in to get such 
a high level education.? now coming to our other brother Lamin J Darboe. he 
is a very intelligent brother whose intelligence was well known before he 
left the Gambia. he attain the highest level of law studies in the u.s. he is a 
barrister. but did Mr Darboe just accept his intelligence and sit at home? he 
worked hard for all he achieve. likewise many brothers and
sisters study the things that interest them. God did not tell us to do those 
studies. we knew it will help us in our future careers. we want the best in 
life.] Suntou.

Suntou, have you bothered to ask Galleh and JDAM why they are doing what 
they do???? And what does that have to do with God/Allah conducting research on 
them unawares????


[In our every day life, God is present with us in his knowledge. he is not 
dictating to us what to do. he send us our constitution and guide, his words 
through a man from among us. this man deliver the message of God. just like any 
speaker, we are entitle to say, what a load of rubbish or what a waste of 
time you are.
if one wants to understand the message of God, you take time and analyse his 
messages in the books containing them, if you still think the messages are 
vake, then consult the experts in that field, just like we consult legal 
advisers, accountants, coaches, teachers, doctors, etc. we cannot have an excuse 
in the hereafter.] Suntou.

You are all over the place. Suntou, are you now wanting to rephrase your 
supposition that God/Allah evicted from heaven because Shaitan enticed us into 
evil so we can continue to be tested here on earth for the later reckoning for 
inventory sakes to continue being subjects of research in heaven or hell as 
will be determined by God/Allah????

[God told people in the Quran, " won't you ponder over the message i reveal 
to you?"] Suntou.

I did. And I continue to do that.

[He also told us to look into our own creation, there is a lesson for those 
who think. the anatomy of man is full of what amaze us every single day. the 
Satan is only there to distract us. we as men let him have control over us, we 
let him rule us. the Satan has his own kingdom. he rule over the jinns and 
men who obey him. he gave his followers things that they should have to wait 
for.] Suntou.

And God/Allah created us, Saitan, and all the jinns.

[the confusion over the messengers is all man's determination to live the 
way he deem fit. a close example is when we have elected members representing us 
in government. we expect this people to do what we voted them to do.] 
Suntou.

Forget the messengers and the representatives of govt. we voted for or will 
vote for. What does that have to do with God/Allah??? It seems to me these 
folk have their own deamons and personal problems they must account for. That is 
why we prosecute them here on earth before they answer to their creator for 
the other side of double jeopardy.

[but this men later becomes more powerful than us. they rather tell us what 
we should do not the other way round. they make laws that restrict our rights, 
they lock us up and enjoy our tax revenue. yet we feel this people should be 
listening to us. we normally tell them, next election , we will not vote for 
you.] Suntou.

And whose faults are you sharing?? I hope you don't think those are 
God/Allah's faults.

[As for God ,the day he will ask us to give account, there will be no next 
time.] Suntou.

Advice: Don't wait for the day of divine judgement. Judge on earth and 
forgive or punish. Then let God/Allah do what She wills.

[this is why it is important that we don't make life more complicated than 
it is. we all Believe in God. But we need to believe the correct way. we need 
to prove that we believe by doing the bare minimum required of us. if you are 
Muslims, pray the five daily prayers, fast during Ramadan, go for hajj in you 
are capable, give zakat when you have the wealth. and firmly believe in The 
uniqueness and oneness of god without any partner or lookalike, without any 
concept that we are all gods or any thing like that.] Suntou.

The five pillars of Islam. Eemaan. I told you you are funny Suntou. The 
moment I look away, you are right back where you began. I gotta watch yew.

[i will now continue on the holy men's issue. the marabouts, the seriegns, 
the chernos.] Suntou.

I am not interested. They have their personal problems and deamons to deal 
with.
Masoud. MQJGDT. Darbo. Al Mu'umin.






Haruna Darbo wrote:
In other words God/Allah is conducting research on his creation. Ergo, we 
are only significant to her and NOT ourselves. What success are we working 
toward ag
now coming to one of our brother, Lamin J Darboe, he is also a high 
intelligent pain?????

I think brother Sidibeh is unto something Suntou. The Shaitan/devil is the 
conflicts within Ourselves and not a countervailing force of divine research.

Haruna. I just remembered the landscape project is not quite complete. My 
son has brought two key points to my attention. One is divine, and the other 
is 
process. I shall share them with you my friends under appropriate topic.


In a message dated 5/6/2008 5:47:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
[log in to unmask] writes:

Brother Edie, if you are following me, i am taking a sequence. i am coming 
to the questions you asked.
what is imperative is that we understand our relationship with god and then 
with the Satan. You don't need to worry about the temptations of the Satan 
if 
you fully understand what God expects of you. The reality of the state of 
the human being is such that, we are given a freedom to choose between good 
and 
evil. that is part of our privilege creation. since you are using practical 
examples to explain our responsibilities as humans, i will do likewise to 
decode other issues.

Mr sidibe, we all know that nothings comes that free, we work hard for our 
success. suppose you work in a factory that manufacture mobile phones. your 
boss told you that i trust you that you will not steal any phone. and he fix 
some cameras to monitor you whilst you work. this cameras cover every angle 
of 
the work place. but you know unless some thing major happens your boss will 
not check the camera records. you start to steal some phones once in a 
while. 
your boss never caught you but your actions are on tape.
you work for that company until you are retired. your boss then plan a send 
off for you. he never knew what bad things you have done.he trusted you to 
do 
what is right with all the temptation to steal few phones. 
similarly, God's decision to let the devil tempt us is a test brother Edie. 
that test is the measure of our determination to obey him or obey our 
nemesis 
the devil. we cannot just be created to obey god, without any test, that 
will not make us any different from other animals.
the test is the key for our success or failure in the hereafter. just like 
we 
are given exams in schools or universities.
the point you stated concerning " no one will go to hell" is a concept that 
the nation of Islam preaches. but the reality is that ,hell is a place for 
punishment and cleansing. we should all pray that God forbid us from 
entering 
into it.
men like pol pot,Mobutu, HITLER COMMITTED ACTS WHICH ARE horrible yet no one 
has punished them for their actions, do you believe that those men will not 
get judged by their creator? 
as Muslims we believe that hell is a test for all believers. those who obey 
the commandments of GOD will be blessed with paradise and others with hell. 
but the decision to either punish or bless lies only in god's hand. the 
creation of the devil or Satan is part of test. he is needed to test the 
obedience 
and promise of man. all that the devil tempt men can be substitute with what 
is allowed by god. for instance, instead of adultery one can marry. instead 
of consuming alcohol one can drink juice or water. etc. i will continue 
later. 
the real issue here is why and how men give their life to the Satan, be it 
in the name of arts and creativity, or entertainment,wars,wealth,fame and 
over 
zealousity. we shall take a sequence.thanks



since you are using practi

Edie Sidibeh wrote:

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