Thanks Rhonda. Your response to that lady was just right, too.
Phil.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rhonda Partain" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: It's My Fault, Faith I mean.
> If we had such power.....if we could do anything by or amount of faith,
or
> could by some means hold on to something....why would we need God in the
> first place? A few years ago a new lady came up to me in church. She
told
> me her name and said she wanted to pray for me. I agreed, know and
> believing in the power pf prayer. She then offered a prayer for my
healing,
> the restoration of my sight. After her prayer, there we were, she as she
> had been before, and I was still blind. She said we'd need to pray more
> about this. I responded that I had already asked God about this, and that
I
> had given my life to Him, he was the one in control. If, and when he
chose
> to give me my sight was His decision, I did not choose to continually ask
> him the same thing over and over again.
> She did not like my answer.
> I think that sometimes people live their whole lives thinking all of the
> "If-onlies" if only.....I was.....if only I had......if only I
> lived.......they miss a lot of happiness and lose a lot of the Peace
Jesus
> came to give them because they have not fitured out how to be content in
the
> moment.
>
> I liked your article........you are sure a funny writer. Funny to be
sure,
> but true none the less.
>
>
> Thanks for sharing.
>
>
>
> Rhonda
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil Scovell" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 3:35 PM
> Subject: It's My Fault, Faith I mean.
>
>
> > Here is my latest article that for sure will get me into big time
trouble
> > with lots of people. It is also long, about 8 pages, but whose
counting.
> >
> > Phil.
> >
> > So It's My Fault Again?
> >
> >
> > By Phil Scovell
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes, I did it again! I turned on the radio and dialed up a
> > Christian broadcast. I couldn't help it. It was late, about
> > midnight, I wasn't sleepy yet, and besides, it was my favorite
> > preacher's voice coming through the speaker. His program was
> > just coming on the air so I settled back to listen to his daily 15
> > minute broadcast. Within five minutes, I was spitting, rending my
> > clothes, and casting dust into the air. "Why me, God? Why do you
> > let me hear this stuff? I don't even have my own radio or TV
> > program to expose the false teaching, Lord. What gives?"
> >
> > He was preaching at a Bible conference at his own ministry
> > facilities so I have no idea how old this sermon was but it
> > couldn't be too old because he commented on his thirty years plus
> > of ministry, and I know how old he is because he is my age.
> > Plus, I have many of his tapes and I have heard him hundreds of
> > times. Like I said, he is, still is, my favorite preacher because
> > I agree with his interpretation and application of the Scriptures
> > so often.
> >
> > His basic theme of the message was healing. He was trying to
> > explain why some people don't keep, the key word here is keep,
> > their healing. This, for me, even as a tongue talking, weirded
> > out Charismatic, has always bothered me. I mean, everything God
> > ever has done, up until now apparently, has been permanent. For
> > example, the creation of all things, people he raised from the
> > dead didn't lose there healing but later died natural deaths, the
> > blind never went back to being blind, Lepers stayed healed, the
> > woman with an issue of blood did not have to return for more help
> > from Jesus, the lame continued walking, Lepers remained whole, the
> > deaf kept hearing, and need I continue by listing all our Lord's
> > miracles? So what is this Charismatic thing that you can lose
> > your healing? Of course, the only answer that can be used is that
> > it is our fault. Right? I mean, we done lost our faith. Right?
> > come on, now, you know the routine. It doesn't sound like God to
> > me no matter how you explain it.
> >
> > In this message, as is the case with so many messages by
> > "Holy Spirit filled" Charismatics, if a healing doesn't work,
> > especially one in which they have prayed, laid hands on, and
> > those whom they have just chased demons out of, then your faith is
> > the problem; not theirs. I mean, there faith is obviously working
> > and yours ain't. Next time you are told that, ask for your money
> > back and walk out of the place because you just been lied to. I
> > mean, somebody is short changing the true nature and character of
> > Jesus so get away from them. Now!
> >
> > In this particular sermon, the preacher told the story about
> > a woman who had been miraculously healed of whatever she had. I
> > can't recall now if it was cancer or just what but it was bad,
> > inoperable, and something she would likely die of, again, as I
> > recall the story that he told. Regardless of what it was, it was
> > very serious; that much I remember. However, as is the case with
> > so many who are healed, she lost it. Dad gum it. Can't God do
> > anything right?
> >
> > He said that he asked the lady what she did the next morning
> > when she realized, whatever the disease or malady was that had
> > returned, and she said, "Well, I made an appointment and went in
> > to see the doctor." He informed her that this was her first
> > mistake, that is, she went to the doctor. He further said that
> > she wasn't using her faith, as she once had, when she had been
> > healed and thus she lost her healing. In other words, you are on
> > your own even if you are a born again Christian. What happen to
> > the preacher's prayer of faith over you anyway? Why is it all of
> > the sudden, your fault, and not his? Where is his responsibility
> > as "A Man Of God?" Did he lose his faith when you lost your
> > healing? Come on! What's up here?
> >
> > My personal problem with this felonious theology is that I
> > can't find any Scripture to confirm it. When I look at Jesus, or
> > even His own disciples, I find that people got healed and it was
> > permanent. Never once is there any record that anybody lost their
> > healing because of a lack of faith. You will, of course, find
> > passages where Jesus said, "Your faith hath made you whole," but
> > you won't find them losing their healing later or did the Holy
> > Spirit, the author of the Bible, just leave those negative things
> > out? He sure didn't leave out the negative things in the Old
> > Testament record. I can also point out many places where the Holy
> > Spirit reports through the inspired writers of the New Testament,
> > the times Believers were accused of failure due to their unbelief.
> > Did you hear it? Due to their unbelief! The Lord's own disciples
> > of our Lord were horribly guilty of this. (See Matthew 13:58,
> > Mark 6:6, Mark 16:14 and especially examine very carefully, the
> > story of the demon possessed son found in Matthew 17:14-21). If
> > you are too lazy to look up the passages on your own, then skip
> > reading now and just go back to listening to the dumb butt
> > preacher who still is leading you around by the nose. That's
> > easier than checking the bible out anyhow.
> >
> > These same people who believe you can lose your physical
> > "healing," normally likewise believe that one can lose their
> > salvation in exactly the same way. This is even in spite of the
> > fact the Bible clearly states that "every man is given the
> > measure of faith," but apparently, that faith can be lost and you
> > can be lost again. Does this mean Jesus takes that faith away or
> > just that it is our job to hold on to it so we don't lose our
> > salvation? Which is it? Unfortunately, if losing your salvation
> > is true, I must inform you that you can never ever be born again,
> > or saved, a second, third, or fourth time. In short, you be up a
> > shallow creek without a boat or a paddle. Why? Because Hebrews
> > 10:12 through 26 says the following, and read the whole lengthy
> > passage for context, please. Why? Because it is how you
> > interpret Scripture and thus learn to apply what you read.
> >
> > #12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for
> > ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
> > #13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his
> > footstool.
> > #14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are
> > sanctified.
> > #15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after
> > that he had said before,
> > #16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those
> > days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in
> > their minds will I write them;
> > #17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
> > #18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering
> > for sin.
> > #19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the
> > holiest by the blood of Jesus,
> > #20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us,
> > through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
> > #21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
> > #22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of
> > faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and
> > our bodies washed with pure water.
> > #23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without
> > wavering; for he is faithful that promised;
> > #24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to
> > good works:
> > #25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the
> > manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the
> > more, as ye see the day approaching.
> > #26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the
> > knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for
> > sins."
> >
> > Let me point out what should be the obvious in this passage.
> >
> > First, verse 12 says, "But this man, after he had offered one
> > sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God."
> > It is pretty clear to me that this verse identifies the person of
> > Jesus Christ as being our supreme sacrifice for sin. The
> > terminology used of, "this man, after he had 'offered one
> > sacrifice' for sins 'for ever,' makes it absolutely clear that His
> > sacrifice for sin was once and for all; for ever. "Once" and "for
> > ever" is pretty final; wouldn't you say? Oh, I'm sorry. I
> > forgot. Unless, of course, you can lose your salvation. Some
> > God. He can't even save his own without man's help, apparently.
> >
> > Secondly, verse 14 repeats the absolute truth of the prior
> > theological statement by saying, #14 "For by one offering he hath
> > perfected for ever them that are sanctified." My! What's this?
> > How many offerings did Jesus offer? (He is the offering, in case
> > you missed It. It says, "For by one offering." Just one, not two
> > or three or more. This clearly means, if you lose your salvation
> > for being a dumb bell and not watching your step, you cannot go
> > back for seconds because only "one" offering has been given.
> >
> > It doesn't stop there. The same verse says the following:
> > "he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." Perfected?
> > What in the world is He talking about? It can't mean really
> > perfect, can it? Yes, it literally means, in the Greek, to be made
> > perfect or complete. If it really means perfected, you can't lose
> > it, or can you? It sounds like perfect means perfect to me but
> > then what do I know; I just read the Bible and take it for what it
> > says in plain English and forego trying to read something else
> > into it to fit my personal theology. Besides, if we are
> > "sanctified," since when does God remove that state of
> > sanctification once it is given? Oh, I see. We can lose our
> > sanctification as well? Too bad the Greek word for "sanctify," in
> > this passage means (to be made holy, complete, purified, and
> > guiltless). In short, there is no room to interpret
> > sanctification in terms of that which is temporarily given to some
> > one until they screw up, sin, or stop acting like a child of the
> > King. Boy, you almost had me worried there for a second.
> >
> > Thirdly, and I'm sorry but it would be wise to quote all
> > three verses collectively in order to see it more clearly, this
> > passage again says: #15 "Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a
> > witness to us: for after that he had said before,
> > #16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those
> > days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in
> > their minds will I write them;
> > #17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more."
> >
> > The "Holy Ghost" is our witness that these things are true.
> > That's good. So that means we cannot claim we lost the Holy
> > Spirit in the process, unless, of course, you simply don't know
> > how to read. I suppose, if the Holy Spirit is less than God, He
> > could, in fact, stop witnessing, stop sealing our salvation, and
> > just move on to do something else but that isn't in the Bible
> > either. Honestly. We are having a terrible time getting away
> > from that bible stuff, aren't we?
> >
> > Next, in verse #16, we are flatly told, this is a covenant.
> > What? Well, shoot, if you can lose your salvation, then a man can
> > be uncircumcised after being circumcised. ouch! Right? That's
> > the covenant of God given to Abraham, whose seed we are, (See
> > Romans 4:11-13), and if you have the time, read all of Romans
> > Chapter 2 concerning who is a Jew and who is circumcised and who
> > is of faith. That will clear up any confusion you might have. Of
> > course, if you don't take time to read those passages, you likely
> > are still going to believe a lie. Unless, of course, you are
> > unawares of what circumcision is physically and what it means
> > Biblically. In that case, physically, I mean, check a good
> > medical book out of your local library. Your Bible explains the
> > theological aspect of circumcision but then again, you'll have to
> > read it to find out about it. If you won't do that, read your
> > Bible, I mean, you likely won't go to the library either so just
> > forget what I suggested.
> >
> > Verse #16 continues by saying "saith the Lord, I will put my laws
> > into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them." He,
> > Jesus, the Holy Spirit bearing witness, puts His law into our
> > hearts?" Furthermore, He, Jesus, the Holy Spirit bearing witness,
> > writes it in our minds?" Wow! I guess, if one can lose their
> > salvation, God has a big huge rubber eraser some place in the
> > universe He must have to use occasionally. No, I'm not trying to
> > be funny. He writes it what Revelation calls "The Lamb's Book Of
> > Life," or just "The Book Of Life." Get it? "Life?" Not death?
> > (See Revelation 3:5, 13:8, 17:8, 20:12, 20:15, 21:27, and 22:29).
> > That last reference is the only one I am aware of whereby one can
> > lose their eternal salvation and this is committed by adding, or
> > changing, or altering, God's Word. So be careful. Oh, yes.
> > Philippians 4:3 also mentioned "The Book Of Life," but if all the
> > other references don't apply, that one won't either so it is up to
> > you and what you believe, I guess.
> >
> > So, what in the Sam Hill are we then going to do with Hebrews
> > Chapter 12 and verse #17 that says, "their sins and iniquities
> > will I remember no more." If you lose your salvation, you know,
> > the thing the Holy Ghost bears witness of, and comes to dwell,
> > literally, inside of our newly recreated spirit, (See 2
> > Corinthians 5:17 and John 14:14-20), which even says that Jesus
> > dwells within us, but I digress, repeating myself, what are we
> > going to have to do to explain this promise away? You can use, of
> > course, if your agenda is to make your theology fit what you say
> > you believe, that God has a failing memory relating to salvation,
> > or some lame thing like that, but no matter what you say, you
> > can't make God remember something He says He can't remember
> > concerning your sin he has totally forgotten about. Well, unless
> > you don't believe the Bible but I thought you claimed you were a
> > Bible Believer. If you have further doubt, explain to me what
> > Psalm 103:12 is talking about. "As far "as the east is from the
> > west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us." That's
> > right; you can't explain it any other way than truthfully. You
> > either take God at His Word or you don't. Yes, we are getting
> > dangerously close to why people "lose their healing," so hold on a
> > minute.
> >
> > It is actually verse #18 that really rattles the, (you can
> > lose your salvation), or (healing), outfit. Let me quote verse
> > #17 with it, though, so you'll get the contextual feel for the
> > full meaning and impact of the verse. Here we go. Strap yourself
> > in.
> >
> > #17 "And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
> > #18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering
> > for sin."
> >
> > Woe horse! But don't stop here. Let's jump all the way down
> > to verse #26 to finish the thought of the theology being depicted
> > within the complete text.
> >
> > #26 "For if we sin willfully after that we have received the
> > knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for
> > sins."
> >
> > Bingo, Brother! Do you see it? No more offering for sins if
> > you lose your salvation. Step lightly, young man, or you might
> > end up in hell even if you once were on your way to Heaven. Man,
> > is this weird theology or what? And people say I'm crazy.
> >
> > Let me say it one more time so you don't overlook it.
> > According to these verses, if you are born again, and sin
> > willfully again, you cannot ever be born again a second time
> > because Jesus cannot go back to the cross and die for you and your
> > sins all over again and then be bodily resurrected on the third
> > day. You are done stuck going to hell period; it is final. Yes,
> > some people believe you can get saved, born again, every day, if
> > that's what it takes, but they must be reading a different Bible.
> > In that case, run!
> >
> > Let me cut to the chase, therefore, and ask you this
> > question. Is our salvation a covenant we have with God, the Holy
> > Spirit bearing witness of such, or is our salvation something we
> > can change once it is God applied? If you can read, you already
> > know the answer. If healing, therefore, is also a covenant
> > relationship with God, and it is, can we then lose that, too,
> > just like our salvation? Do you see why I started with the true
> > interpretation of the doctrine of our eternal salvitic
> > relationship with God? They go together; they cannot be
> > separated.
> >
> > Yes, yes, I know. You have one very important question to
> > ask so go ahead, right now, and get it off your chest. I'm
> > listening.
> >
> > "Well, if we can't lose our salvation and we shouldn't be
> > able to lose our physical miraculous healing, what about this
> > woman who went to the doctor that the preacher talked about on the
> > radio?"
> >
> > Excellent question. The woman, in this story, was told she
> > lost her healing because she lost her faith. Sorry, Charlie.
> > Ain't in the Bible, no how. No, she didn't stop believing either.
> > No, it wasn't a big lack of trust in God either. "Then what was
> > it?" In whom was this woman believing when she "received her
> > healing?" Take a wild guess. The preacher who told her about
> > this miracle she could have if she just believed? You are getting
> > warmer. In whose words did she believe, do you suppose, when she
> > "got her miraculous healing which she later lost?" In this story,
> > the preacher, my favorite preacher, told her to go back to doing
> > what she did when she got healed. No! No! No! That's what got
> > her to losing her healing in the first place. Why in God's name
> > would you instruct her to do what she did before? Healing isn't
> > of you or me or any hair brained theologically screwed up radio
> > preach or pastor. Salvation, and healing, is of the Lord, stupid.
> > Come on. In whom do you believe? The preacher? The pastor? Me?
> > Some dumb Christian book called the Purple Propelled Life?
> > Promise Holders? Some men's organization called the Advanced
> > Christian Porno Problem Solvers who meet on the internet, charging
> > thirty dollars a month for membership dues, and meets once a week?
> > Give me a break. For crying out loud, to whom are you listening
> > to in the first place? What happened to believing God and His
> > eternal, unchanging, eternal, Holy Word just like it reads? I
> > swear, if the government band all Christian broadcasting
> > tomorrow, I think I'd shout, "Glory. Back to church we go." At
> > least then, foolish theology will only be spread by word of mouth,
> > or, God forbid, by New York Times best selling books.
> >
> > Let me suggest something at this point. From now on, anybody
> > who is going to lay hands on you for a physical healing, ask them
> > if they, the key word here is they, will give you a 100 percent
> > guaranteed promise that you will, first, be healed, and second, it
> > will be permanent. I guarantee, and promise you, that they will
> > refuse to lay hands on you for healing if you ask that question
> > first. What if preachers and pastors suddenly started taking
> > responsibility for those with whom they pray? What if they blamed
> > themselves for a person "losing their healing," instead of blaming
> > the person they prayed for? Let me prove something to you right
> > here and now.
> >
> > Let's use this same favorite preacher of mine as an example.
> > My young son has his third degree black belt in Karate. He is a
> > judge at tournaments, he has been an instructor at a Karate
> > school, he has trophies, a broken foot with a steel plate and six
> > screws in it, he has been hospitalized with concussions, and he
> > has, for that matter, done a little bleeding along the way, too.
> > So, during one of these healing services, following the message of
> > course, few ever get healed miraculously before the preaching, and
> > especially before the offering, what if I went forward to be
> > prayed for and healed. I am totally blind with two artificial
> > eyes. I can take them out to prove it. Let's say I bring along
> > my son with the black belts in Karate. Ok? So far; so good.
> > Now, when the preacher comes up to lay hands on me for a for real
> > recreative miracle, you know, the ones like Jesus often did, let's
> > say that I ask him if he, the preacher, believes I am going to be
> > receiving my sight with brand new eyeballs. You know, just like
> > the blind man in John Chapter 9 who let Jesus spit in the dirt,
> > make clay, and slap the gooey mess right in his empty eye sockets.
> > How weird is that. Sort of like when Jesus stuck his fingers in
> > the deaf man's ears, spit and touched his tongue, of all things,
> > and the old boy started hearing. That's in Mark Chapter 7 if you
> > are worried about what I said. But, then, maybe he lost his
> > hearing again later. That Jesus! I tell you what. Sometimes I
> > wonder if He knows what He is doing without all these preachers
> > telling Him first what to be doing and saying. Now back to my
> > story.
> >
> > I already know I believe so I want to know if the preacher
> > truly believes and will stake his ministerial reputation on what
> > he says he believes and what he is about to pray. Ok? I mean,
> > the disciples did so why not those of us who preach and teach that
> > we know what the Bible says. By the way, I tell the people with
> > whom I pray that I promise they will experience healing and that I
> > guarantee it will be permanent, so what's the big deal here? No
> > guts? No glory: personal glory? I'm confused at your
> > reluctance.
> >
> > So, now. If, by chance, I can get him to go this far, I will
> > then lift his leg so my son can, with one hand, or one foot, break
> > his leg. Then I will ask him to show me his faith or does he wish
> > me to call an ambulance just before my son breaks his other leg.
> > "Not fair," you say? Why not? Faith is faith, or are you now
> > going to tell me there are degrees, or levels, of faith that work
> > only under certain situations? Get a life and call me back when
> > you have something worth saying, or when they remove your cast.
> > For now, your teaching is not just weak, it isn't even Biblical
> > and stop asking for my offering on your radio program until you
> > teach the truth about who God really is. While you are at it,
> > return all the money you've receive thus far from people who
> > believe you were telling them the truth, too. Otherwise, get a
> > job.
> >
> >
> > It Sounds Like God To Me.
> > www.SafePlaceFellowship.com
>
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