Angel,

I think the objection that many fundamentalists have is not just
Mary being called one's mother, but speaks more to the Marian
doctrine that she is the mother of God.  Of course, I understand
that Catholics, and they are certainly not the only ones, in fact
do believe Mary was the mother of God.  Other Christian
fundamentalist don't find this in Scripture so it is the
implication of Mother Mary that rubs the doctrinal fur wrong.  I'm
quite aware of all the passages of Scripture used in attempting to
prove Mary was not only the mother of Jesus but, since Jesus is
God, thus she must likewise be the Mother of God.  Jesus, of
course, referred to Mary as His mother but it is obvious He was
referring to Mary as His earthly, or human, mother by which He
entered the world as Messiah.  If Jesus is God, and the Scriptures
are loaded with the confirmation of that doctrine, then He, Jesus,
as God, cannot by human nature have a mother, that is, God was not
born.  Jesus was but He was the Messiah.  God is not the Messiah
but we call Him, based upon Scriptures, Father.  My point is this.
If I said to you, God is my Father, but completed my statement by
saying He is my earthly father and by Him I was born, this would
be theologically and Biblically incorrect.  If I refer to Him as
my spiritual Father, then no doctrine is violated.  I guess you
could say, so I will, that it is in the believing of the doctrinal
details that makes truth real and final.  I understand what you
said below but you and I both know that you are not just referring
to Mary as Mother in the same way we all refer to God as our
Father.  I've written and researched Vatican statements
extensively to try and understand the Catholic belief in Marian
theology so it isn't my purpose to try and reinvent the Marian
wheel here on this list.  Furthermore, there is no reason for you
to read my findings because you wouldn't agree with them anyway.
I'm not trying to change your mind here but just trying to turn a
little light on why fundamentalists disagree calling Mary our
Mother.  Even Jesus insisted His mother wasn't a doctrine in which
to believe when one woman tried proclaiming her as such but
instead elevated, without hesitation, all peoples of the world who
made Him, Jesus, the Lord of their lives, through salvitic
conversion.  This means, regardless of what one calls Mary, born
again believers in the Messiah, whom Jesus is, theologically held
in an even higher position than Mary ever did, or could, upon
earth.  Yes, I know you believe she was also resurrected, thus
making her even spiritually superior to born again believers, but
there is no Biblical record of that.  There is likewise no
Biblical record of her becoming the Redemptoris, that is, becoming
through a hypostatic union with the Messiah, as co-redeemer of all
those who receive and accept Christ as Lord and Savior.  This is,
of course, only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to explaining
Marian theology.  It is that first step away from Biblical
evidence of Mary's humanity as the one chosen to give birth to,
God with us, that continually reduces  and diminishes, the
personage and nature of the Messiah to the point He is
theologically morphed  into something other than the true God of
the Bible.

Phil.




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angel238" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: A cinnical attitude


> What ought I to say.  Eve was the mother of us all, and Jesus was the
second
> adam.  Mary was his mother.  As we Christians are all his brothers and
> sisters, and as Mary was his mother why is she not our mother as well.  I
> don't understand this objection.  As I feel her to be my mother would
> calling her my mother  be more appropriate?
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Carol Pearson" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 4:07 PM
> Subject: Re: A cinnical attitude
>
>
> >I think your wording "our mother" gave the impression that we all embrace
> >her as our mother, whereas this is not the case.  Most on the list would
> >freely recognize that Mary had a very special role to play in the life of
> >Jesus, but we don't hold her in such high esteem as those of the Catholic
> >faith.
> >
> > Perhaps you also need to respect others' views on the list and be
careful
> > in how you write these things.  None of us want to cause offence, but we
> > do all have a belief in what we see to be true ... and that's where most
> > of us stand.
> >
> > --
> > Carol
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Angel238" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 4:51 PM
> > Subject: Re: A cinnical attitude
> >
> >
> >>I don't want to get into a debate with you as this is not what the list
is
> >>for.  I wanted to make a basic point here which I did.  Jesus is my
> >>brother, God is my father, and as the mother of Our Lord, mary is my
> >>mother.  I assumed you felt the same.  This list should be understanding
> >>of all Christian faiths.  We Catholics believe Mary to be our mother.
> >>Just leave it at that and regard the point I was trying to make.  There
> >>had to be a reason God chose her to be one of the first earthly
enfluences
> >>and to make one of the first empressions on the baby Jesus.  This virtue
> >>was one of them I feel.
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "John Schwery" <[log in to unmask]>
> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2008 8:37 AM
> >> Subject: Re: A cinnical attitude
> >>
> >>
> >>> Mary is not our mother.  As God, He had no mother: as man, He had no
> >>> father.
> >>>
> >>> earlier, Angel238, wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>This is one of the things for which I admire our mother.  She didn't
> >>>>seem to fret over things.  Rather, she pondered in her heart what was
> >>>>meant by occurances and their significance.  This is one of the many
> >>>>reasons God in his infinite wisdom chose her to be the mother of our
> >>>>blessed Lord. This is an virtue we would do well to emulate. It would
> >>>>save us much unwelcome stress, and would fill us with much Pease.  I
> >>>>have fallen short many times of this.  Each time our Lord brings me
> >>>>through a crisis safely, I vow to practice this virtue and to allow
him
> >>>>to take care of the troubling situations in my life which beset me.
> >>>>Perhaps this will be my new years resolution.  I, however, shall just
> >>>>continue to try till it happens for me.
> >>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Scovell" <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >>>>Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 9:09 PM
> >>>>Subject: Re: A cinnical attitude
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Kathy,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Well, that's good to know I'm not alone, haw.  Strange you should
> >>>>>mention
> >>>>>Mary.  I was thinking of the birth of Christ during Christmas, of
> >>>>>course,
> >>>>>but that took me, for some reason, to thinking about Mary and how
> >>>>>courageous
> >>>>>she must have been when Gabriel appeared to her and gave her the
news.
> >>>>>Then
> >>>>>my mind suddenly jumped to the cross and how it must have torn her
> >>>>>heart out
> >>>>>to see her own son hanging naked on the cross while at the same time,
> >>>>>knowing it was for her sins, too.  Jesus telling John to take care of
> >>>>>her is
> >>>>>so powerful to me whenever I think about it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Phil.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database:
> >>>>269.17.13/1211 - Release Date: 1/6/2008 11:57 AM
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database:
> >>>>269.17.13/1211 - Release Date: 1/6/2008 11:57 AM
> >>>
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -- 
> >>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database:
> >>> 269.17.13/1211 - Release Date: 1/6/2008 11:57 AM
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>