Actually Kyle, the under the radar thing before DADT is wrong. I was in
during the Gulf War and I can tell you that Cheney has always been on a
witch hunt for gays. You could be tossed out if someone thought you were
gay and a lot of money was used to investigate people to prove they were
gay. Trust me, more men in the military are gay than you would suspect, and
a lot less women are than you think.
Adultery was rarely prosecuted to the extent being gay was and basically,
anything other than the missionary position is against the UCMJ so, about
half the sailors in the fleet could have been prosecuted. <grin>
beth t. the OT
PS. I didn't watch the general and quite frankly don't care what a person's
orientation is, let them serve if they want...
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cerebral Palsy List [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> On Behalf Of Cleveland, Kyle E.
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 8:12 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: what would you do?
>
> Ken, et al,
>
> I know this started off as a funny, but this Ken's fellow
> Ken's talking about really started a firestorm of discussion
> in the military community. Here's some background on the
> fellow from the wire service:
>
> "Keith Kerr, retired Colonel., U.S. Army; retired Brigadier
> General, California National Reserve, who submitted a
> question about gays in the military, is a member of Hillary
> Clinton's 'Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transexual Americans
> For Hillary' Steering Committee. He's also part of a film
> production crew trying overturn the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"
> policy."
>
> From his bio on Servicemembers Legal Defense Network where he
> is on the Military Advisory Council:
>
>
> "He retired from the U. S. Army Reserve in 1986 with the rank
> of Colonel and was commissioned in the California State
> Military Reserve (California National Guard) on 15 March
> 1986, where his assignments were Inspector Generaland later,
> Chief of Staff. He was appointed Commanding General, Northern
> Area Command, CSMR, with headquarters at Alameda Naval Supply
> Depot, Alameda, CA and promoted to Brigadier General on 21
> February 1991. He held this position until reassigned to
> State Headquarters on 31 July 1995. General Kerr retired on 1
> June 1996 after
> 43 years of service to the United States and the State of California."
>
> "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" was one of the worst edicts to come
> out of the Clinton White House. In a misguided attempt to
> help the cause of gay folks in the military, it actually
> forced many out of the system. There have always been
> bunches of gays in the military--especially since the
> integration of women into Combat Support and Combat Service
> Support teams.
>
> Prior to DADT, nobody cared because gay folks steered
> themselves toward the services and jobs that were under the
> radar. DADT was unofficially in place long before the law
> was passed. Used to be, when a kid wanted out of his/her
> enlistment contract they would go to their CO and say, "I
> want to quit, so I'm gay--you need to put me out." They'd
> get a "General Discharge under Honorable Conditions" and that
> was it. NOW there has to be an investigation and the CO has
> to determine if there was sexual activity and who the partner
> was. Say you have two lesbians in a relationship and one
> wants leave before her commitment is up. If she goes to the
> CO, then that commander has to verify the act(s) and if they
> were with another soldier. The other soldier, who wants to
> stay in, has to testify under oath whether or not she had a
> sexual relationship with the other soldier. Either way, both
> of their military careers are shot and they may get
> discharged under "Less That Honorable Conditions". You can't
> use your veteran status for job seeking at that point. In
> these cases the soldier who wants to leave will be strongly
> advised to Chapter 15 out on "Drug and Alcohol" issues with a
> General Discharge. DADT is a screwed-up law that never
> needed to be there in the first place.
>
> I saw the debate live and was embarrassed by GEN Kerr's grandstanding.
> It was very awkward and certainly did nothing to help the gay
> community.
> On top of that, if he WAS gay during his time in service and
> committed a sexual act prohibited by the Uniform Code of
> Military Justice (UCMJ), then he should have his retirement
> package revoked. This has happened to numerous officers who
> have committed adultery while in service (adultery is another
> act prohibited by the UCMJ).
>
> Kyle
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cerebral Palsy List [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> On Behalf Of ken barber
> Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 9:56 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: what would you do?
>
> you know i wonder why the question on that came up in the GOP
> debate when "don't ask, don't tell" was/is a clinton policy.
> the clinton news network picked the question and flew the guy
> from florida and it was all coincidence? i was borned at
> night, but not last nignt.=20
>
> --- "Kendall D. Corbett" <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > But if some of the CG enlistees were gay or lesbian, how
> would that
> >be viewed under "don't ask, don't tell," which is newly under fire?
> >=20
> > On 12/8/07, Tamar Raine <[log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > well, then some would be gay or lesbian, and one
> > would be transexual! lol!
> > >
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > http://www.zazzle.com/TamarMag*
> > > Tamar Mag Raine
> > > [log in to unmask]
> > > www.cafepress.com/tamarmag
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: Deri James <[log in to unmask]>
> > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2007 3:47:02 AM
> > > Subject: Re: what would you do?
> > >
> > > On Saturday 08 December 2007 02:22:55 Tamar Raine
> > wrote:
> > > > I say let them party! lol! it's only a one hour
> > flight!
> > > >
> > >
> > > Yeah, you're right - but I think the airline would
> > have to set up a rota,
> > > there were 17 females and 25 males!!
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Deri
> > >
> > >
> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > > http://www.zazzle.com/TamarMag*
> > > > Tamar Mag Raine
> > > > [log in to unmask]
> > > > www.cafepress.com/tamarmag
> > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > From: ken barber <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > > Sent: Friday, December 7, 2007 10:45:58 AM
> > > > Subject: what would you do?
> > > >
> > > > Fasten Seat Belts
> > > >
> > > > Flying to Los Angeles from San Francisco the
> > other
> > > > day, a passenger noticed that the "Fasten Seat
> > Belts"
> > > > sign was kept lit during the whole journey
> > although
> > > > the flight was a particularly smooth one.
> > > >
> > > > Just before landing, he asked the stewardess
> > about it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Well," she explained, "up front there are 17 University of
> > > > California girls going to Los
> > Angeles
> > > > for the weekend.
> > > >
> > > > "In back, there are 25 Coast Guard enlistees.
> > What
> > > > would you do?"
> > > >
> > >
> > > -----------------------
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> >=20
> >=20
> > --=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > Kendall
> >=20
> > An unreasonable man (but my wife says that's
> > redundant!)
> >=20
> > The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the
> unreasonable one
> >persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.
> > Therefore, all progress
> > depends on the unreasonable man.
> >=20
> > -George Bernard Shaw 1856-1950
> >=20
> > -----------------------
> >=20
> > To change your mail settings or leave the C-PALSY list, go here:
> >=20
> >
> http://listserv.icors.org/SCRIPTS/WA-ICORS.EXE?SUBED1=3Dc-palsy
> >=20
> >=20
>
>
>
> =20
> ______________________________________________________________
> __________
> ____________
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.=20
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
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