Is faith the same as trust in God and reliance upon him? If I won't 
grow in trust in the Lord ever, i am hopeless.

It was my understanding  that as I spend more time with God, spend 
more time in his Word, get to know him better, I will trust him more 
just as it works with people and I thought I did.

I am not sure I understand the terminology right.

to me "faith" is my faith in God and in my salvation thru Jesus 
christ. This faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit and nothing of my own 
doing but only my acknowledgment and acceptance of the gift. My Faith 
is therefore what God has given me and I have that faith in an 
unmetered amount just as I have my salvation in an unmetered unmount.

My trust in the Lord, however, my reliance on him is a growing 
process as I learn to walk with him, learn to trust him more, learn 
to rely on him more, learn to turn to him more and having this come 
more and more naturally. This to me is where "practice! practice! 
practice!" comes in also.

clarification would be welcome.

cheers,

Doris




At 12:29 PM 5/17/2007 -0600, you wrote:

>i.    The Origin Of Faith.
>
>      Let's begin by four statements concerning faith which I will
>first present and then, as the study continues, I will prove
>biblically.
>
>      1.  Faith is a fixed value.
>      2.  God has faith.
>      3.  You will never have more faith than you do right now.
>      4.  Faith and more faith isn't what we need.
>
>Since in this section, we are focusing on "The Origin Of Faith,"
>let's answer the question, "From where does faith come?"  to
>answer this question, I am going to focus on these three areas.
>
>A.  The Source Of Faith.
>B.  The Strength Of Faith.
>C.  The Size Of Faith.
>
>A.  The Source Of Faith.
>
>      Romans 12:3 says, "God has dealt to every man the measure of
>faith."  The Greek word for "dealt" in this verse means
>(separating or dividing into equal portions).  For example, when
>cutting a pie, we attempt to cut the pie into equal portions so
>everyone gets the same amount.  If you were God and cutting that
>same pie, it would be exactly equal portions.  When giving candy
>to our children, or in my case, our grandchildren, everybody gets
>an equal amount.  Otherwise, somebody's feelings are going to get
>hurt.  We don't give more to one than the other because that
>wouldn't be fair.  God doesn't play favorites either because He
>loves us all the same, that is, equally.  Thus, the faith we have
>is proportioned to everyone equally, exactly, and precisely.
>
>      The Greek word for "measure" in this same verse means an
>instrument of exact measurement.  This Greek word has been
>transliterated and given us the word "metronome."  this time
>keeping device sits on a piano and assists us in keeping perfect
>time to the music we play.  Thus, an exact measurement of faith
>allows us to keep perfect time with the Lord and His perfect will
>and God is the One who keeps perfect time in our lives.
>
>      According to this verse, "Who gives us this exact
>measurement of faith?"  Yes, it is God Himself who gives us the
>faith.  So the real question now become, "Where did God get it?"
>
>      If I were to ask if god has righteousness verses God is
>righteousness, I'm sure you would say, God is righteousness.  If
>I were to ask if God has holiness or is God Holiness, I'm sure
>you would agree that God is Holiness.  If I were to suggest God
>has love but God Isn't love, I would imagine you would totally
>disagree with that statement and say, God is love.  Yet, if I say
>God has faith, or God is faith, most would disagree with both
>statements.  So let's discover what the Bible says is the truth
>concerning this matter.
>
>      Hebrews 12:2 says, "Looking unto Jesus the author and
>finisher of our faith."  Some would quickly point out that the
>verse says it is "our faith."  Let me just as quickly point out
>the focus is on Jesus and not us.  Besides, if we have faith as
>Born Again Believers, where did we get it?  Hebrews tells us we
>got it from the Lord Jesus.
>
>      The Greek word for "author" in this passage means (head,
>leader, chief), as in "The Commander and Chief," of our faith.
>Likewise, the Greek word for "finisher" in this verse means (one
>who perfects).
>
>      A friend of mine builds houses for a living but he is called
>a framer because he, and his crew, builds the structure, or
>framework, of the house.  Others come in to do the wiring,
>plumbing, sheet rocking, and they literally "finish" the house.
>This is what Jesus does for our faith.  Our faith comes from
>Jesus and He finishes it for those who are continuing to walk in
>it.
>
>      Unfortunately, for some, this raises yet another question.
>If Jesus is the "author," and "finisher" of our faith, that must
>mean that Jesus has faith, or He is faith, so where did He get
>it?  Before answering that question, let's continue and we will
>return to this issue later.
>
>      Although it is likely we are not yet in agreement that our
>faith has been given to us by God, and that Jesus is the
>Perfecter of our faith, let's look at another aspect of faith
>that will begin to bring things into focus.
>
>B.  the Strength Of Our Faith.
>
>"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God,
>(Romans 10:17).
>
>      Several years ago, this passage of Scripture continually
>came to my thoughts.  Over a period of a couple of weeks, it
>nearly drove me crazy.  I finally stopped working one day, sat
>down at my computer, and dialed the verse into the window and
>began studying each word.  What bothered me the most, during this
>two week period, is that still small voice of the Holy Spirit
>kept misquoting the verse.  He said, "Faith comes out of hearing
>the Word of God."  I knew that was wrong so maybe, just maybe,
>that wasn't the voice of the Holy Spirit in my thoughts after all.
>Of course, as it turned out once again, I was wrong and He was
>right.
>
>      The Greek word for "cometh by" as used by the King James
>translators means (out of), or "out from).  Coupled with the
>question, what are we hearing, and the answer is the Word of God,
>then the verse literally reads, "Faith comes out of hearing the
>Word of God."  This can only be true, of course, if we are
>listening at the time.  Listening, that is, with our spiritual
>ears.  In fact, the experience itself I just describe is exactly
>how faith literally comes out of hearing the Word of God.  This
>also means, in my opinion, but I am far from done proving it, that
>faith must be a fix value, that is, a fixed amount.  Why?  Because
>such is the nature of God's Word; it never changes.  If faith
>comes from hearing the Word of God, and God's Word is fixed, or
>true, or without error, then the faith which comes out of the Word
>of God must have the same spiritual characteristics.  Thus, I
>believe faith is a fixed amount.  Let's not stop yet, though,
>proving that faith is, in fact, a fix value or an exact spiritual
>measurement.  In this line of thinking, and only in this way, I am
>calling this the "strength" of our faith because our strength,
>metaphorically speaking, and sometimes even physically speaking,
>comes from total dependency upon God's Word.
>
>      We have looked at the A.  Source Of Faith, and B.  The
>Strength Of Faith, so let's move to the next point in the
>outline.
>
>C.  The Size Of Faith.
>
>      Question.  How much faith does it take?  I'm referring to
>whatever you are asking God for and believing.  Does it, as was
>earlier suggested, take a little faith, medium sized faith, 75
>percent faith, or off the scale faith in order to get the job
>done?  You see, this is why I do not personally believe that faith
>has a size or measurement other than the exact measurement we
>received at the moment of salvation.  As I said, the faith you
>have now is all the faith you are ever going to have.
>
>Illustration.
>
>      Several years ago, I was listening to one of my favorite
>daily Christian radio programs.  If I mentioned the man's name,
>everyone who listen to Christian radio at all would know him.  I
>still greatly admire this man and still often listen to his radio
>programs.  I have even purchased a number of his tapes over the
>years and still would if I heard something I desired to review and
>keep for my personal satisfaction and spiritual growth.  So, what
>you are about to read is in no way a criticism of this man or his
>ministry.
>
>      One day, his guest was a man who had been working on the
>engine of a prop aircraft.  He had pushed on the prop, it swung
>back, struck his nose, and literally sliced his nose off.  As the
>testimony goes, the man began screaming, "I am healed by the
>stripes of Jesus.  I am healed by the stripes of Jesus."  People
>came running and even his wife, who just happened to be driving to
>the airport, and because she felt the Lord telling her to get to
>the airport as I recall, drove into the parking lot shortly after
>the accident.  She ran out to the area where the plane was parked,
>fell down beside her husband, and in spite of the crowd and the
>medical team trying to work on him, started praying out loud in
>tongues.  If you don't believe in speaking in tongues for today,
>forget that last part but keep reading.  They took the man to the
>hospital, and without pain killing drugs, literally sowed his nose
>back on.  That night, the man was standing in a church speaking
>and giving his testimony of healing.  The testimony itself is not
>what bothered me about what I heard.  By the way, for you
>skeptics, the phrase "By His stripes we were healed?"  That is a
>quote from both First Peter 2:24 and Isaiah 53:5 except in Isaiah,
>it says, "By His stripes we are healed."  The Greek and Hebrew
>words used for the word "healed" is translated, (cured).  You
>cannot be cured from your sins; only forgiven.  Thus, the passages
>of Scripture are not metaphorical but literal.  The word is used
>repeatedly throughout the New Testament in passages where it says
>Jesus cured the sick.  Look it up for yourself if you doubt what I
>have just said.
>
>      what bothered me in this man's testimony was not how he was
>healed by the stripes of Jesus.  It was what he began to teach
>about faith, and said how we exercise our faith, and learn how to
>walk in faith, which bothered me.  Why?  Because what he taught
>wasn't Scriptural.
>      I made mention of this previously but I felt it was worth
>repeating in more detail again since it related directly to the
>size of faith it takes to get a prayer answered.
>
>      As the man continued after his testimony, he was asked by the
>host about how we make our faith work.  The man suggested we start
>out with small things, such as a head ache, and once we achieved
>success in the smaller areas, then advance to the more difficult
>and complex.  This implies that faith must have a predetermined
>size which God has preordained for each individual situation and
>will not, therefore, accept anything less.  It is this concept
>which I find totally unscriptural.  Let's return to the original
>passage I used when beginning this study on faith.
>
>"And the Apostles said unto the Lord, increase our faith,"
>(Luke 17:5).
>
>      As I pointed out, these same disciples came to Jesus on
>another occasion and said, "Teach us to pray," and Jesus did
>teach them to pray.  He, Jesus, used what we call the Lord's
>prayer to teach them a format to which they could relate.
>Unfortunately, some religions today have made what Jesus taught,
>the central form of worship in their denominations and such was
>not at all the point Jesus was trying to get across, but I
>digress.  The issue is, Jesus did not increase their faith upon
>their request.  Instead, on more than one occasion, Jesus started
>teaching, it would appear, on mustard seeds and trees and
>mountains and oceans.  Let's quote the very next verse in Luke 17
>but this time using verse 6 in the passage.
>
>"And the Lord said, If you had faith as a grain of mustard seed,
>you might say unto this sycamine tree, be thou plucked up by the
>roots, and be though planted in the sea; and it shall obey you."
>
>      I realize that most of us have been taught he was speaking
>and teaching metaphorically and spiritually and that Jesus really
>didn't mean what He said.  After all, He was just teaching.
>Right?  Yes, He was indeed teaching all right but He was teaching
>about faith or did we forget that already?  What, then, was Jesus
>trying to say?  Was He suggesting the disciples had faith even
>smaller than a mustard seed?  That seems difficult to believe
>since His disciples had been preaching and teaching on their own
>and casting out demons, healing the sick, and doing everything
>they had seen Jesus already doing.  So they must have had a fair
>amount of faith, otherwise, how could they have done those
>miracles at all?  Let me explain what I mean by comparing yet
>another passage of Scripture.
>
>                         Matthew  17:14-20
>
>14  And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a
>certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying.
>15  Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore
>vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the
>water.
>16  And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure
>him.
>17  Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse
>generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer
>you? bring him hither to me.
>18  And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and
>the child was cured from that very hour.
>19  Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could
>not we cast him out?
>20  And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for
>verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard
>seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder
>place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto
>       you.
>21  Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.
>
>This is quite a fascinating portion of Scripture in many ways.
>There is a great deal of theology that could be gleamed from this
>miracle but it isn't the miracle upon which I wish to focus at the
>moment.
>
>      First, and foremost, we have the mustard seed comparison
>Jesus used again.  The disciples also failed in their attempts to
>cast the demon out.  Odd, you might think, because they had
>already been doing exactly that, and much more, as Jesus sent them
>out under His power and authority.  Since the disciples came to
>Jesus and asked Him why they could not cast the demon out, they
>apparently figured it didn't work because they did not have enough
>faith.  As it turns out, that wasn't the problem at all.
>
>"19  Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could
>not we cast him out?
>20  And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief."
>
>      Because of their "unbelief?"  Wait just a minute here.  Did
>Jesus get mixed up on His doctrine or something?  Shouldn't it be
>their faith that was in question?  What's believing have to do
>with anything?  You see, the disciples made the same mistake we
>normally make, and that is, we think faith has a size for each
>individual thing we face in life.  This erroneous interpretation
>of Scripture leads one to believe that if they pray, and nothing
>happens, then they just didn't have enough faith.  Yet Jesus made
>it perfectly clear, it wasn't their lack of faith but what they
>believed.  They thought if they just had enough faith, or more
>faith, or a whole lot of faith, things would happen.  Jesus
>explained to them it had nothing to do with their faith which they
>thought needed increasing but what they believed.  Jesus was
>trying to get them to see, and understand, that it was not the
>size of their faith that made the difference but the size of their
>God.  How big is God?  Whatever you believe.  The variable in any
>situation, therefore, is not how much faith you have, or need, but
>what we believe.
>
>      In this particular case, Jesus said prayer and fasting was
>required.  Why?  For the disciples to have gain greater insight to
>why the demon was there in the first place and to remember the
>authority Jesus had already given them.  The fasting and prayer
>certainly wasn't for the demons benefit.
>
>      Before leaving this lesson, let me mention that I am far from
>finished proving what I believe about faith.  the other lessons
>expand upon what I have taught thus far.  If you stop here,
>without reading the rest of the lessons, you will go away with the
>wrong conclusions.  What I teach and believe and live by is not
>even taught by Charismatics and Pentecostals so don't try and get
>ahead of me.  If you out run your headlights, you might end up as
>your own road kill.
>
>End Of Lesson Two.
>
>
>It Sounds Like God To Me.
>www.SafePlaceFellowship.com
>
>
>
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