The fat I am consuming is bacon fat  smoked or completely raw. I dislike 
beef fat. It is quite heavy and you  get it only inside the beef. I know the 
pigs are fed artificially but still I see the only answer for me is old good 
bacon fat. It is very tasty. People did consume bacon fat in many 
agricultural societies through centuries.

What may be your attitude to bacon fat.

Hanni









----- Original Message ----- 
From: <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: PALEOFOOD Digest - 10 Jan 2007 to 11 Jan 2007 (#2007-24)


>> >Jim
>> I normally eat carbs, yes, but not out of any belief
>> that they are in any way necessary.
>>
>> Mike
>> When you eat carbs which ones do you tend to eat?
>>
>> Have you found that you are able to gain weight while
>> sticking to your exercise routine without carbs?
>>
>
> I'm a little confused by the question.  My goal is to lose a little bit of 
> weight -- I struggle slightly with my weight creeping upwards not 
> downwards.  And even though I may be at zero carbs, I can still gain 
> weight if I eat too much protein.  Perhaps its just simply calories or 
> maybe gluconeogenesis.
>
>> >Jim
>> Anyway, Phinney shows that carbs are unnecessary but
>> that you have to allow time for adaptation.
>>
>> Mike
>> Did he show that his subjects were able to gain weight
>> (muscle mass) while eating no carbs?  I seem to
>> remember that they were exercising on a treadmill, not
>> weight lifting.
>>
> Oh I get your question above now.  It's an interesting question.  Yes, I'd 
> love to gain muscle mass and don't know if I am or not as I'm simply 
> measuring overall weight.  And, yes, his subjects were doing "aerobic" 
> work.  He DID show though that they didn't lose any muscle.
>
>> Mike
>> How much fat do you include in your diet?  What are
>> your sources of fat?  In the past I
>> have included significant amount of olive oil (along
>> with eating red meat).  Olive oil doesn't seem to work
>> well for me.  My reliance on olive oil is in part
>> based on Rosedale's dietary recommendations.  I am
>> thinking that I need to increase saturated fat.  I
>> have allergy symptoms from egg and coconut and have
>> found the need to limit the amount of meat I eat.
>> Therefore, I am experimenting a bit with ghee
>> (non-paleo, I know).  In part I am trying this because
>> of an account in Lutz's book about the under weight
>> guy who included significant amount of fat from dairy.
>>  (I can search through the book for the pages if you
>> are interested).  What do you do to make fats work for
>> you?
>
> Well, I avoid dairy like the plague.  See Cordain's most recent newsletter 
> for yet another reason why: 
> http://www.thepaleodiet.com/newsletter/newsletters/PDNCourierVol2No5.pdf 
> And it appears that dairy fat may contain the highest concentration of 
> betacellulin.
>
> I'm in the same boat with you with respect to fat.  I do consume a lot of 
> fat from grassfed beef (75% lean hamburger) and coconut oil.  But I also 
> drench my foods with a lot of olive oil too in order to bring the calories 
> up.  I have zero fear of saturated fat BTW.  But whatever the fat 
> composition of grassfed beef is ought to be perfect.
>
> Mike > Personally, I find that after
>> eating no fruit or starches for a several days
>> (probably 4 on average) I have trouble.
>
> Phinney warns that there are three things vital to this moderate protein, 
> low carb diet.  Number one is time for adaptation.  It takes at least a 
> week, probably more like three or four, to fully adapt.  And one thing he 
> doesn't mention is that the fat burning that will inevitably occur will 
> release quite a few stored toxins and make you feel sick.  That's good, 
> though it doesn't feel that way.
>
>>
>> BTW do you know if Stephen Phinney is related to Davis
>> Phinney?  I read a book a while back (15 years ago)
>> authored by Davis Phinney who was a professional
>> cyclist.
>
> I don't know.  Both Davis and his wife Pam *are* physicians I believe.  I 
> wondered that too.
>
> Jim
>
>