Hi Lou,

Very well said.  I love the idea of restraint in responses and not jumping
down someone's throat just because you are having a bad day or someone
yelled at you over something totally unrelated.  My impression has always
been that for a bunch of people who have faced intolerance and downright
discrimination in society, we are sure ready to be intolerant toward each
other.  <GRIN>

That said, I would possibly carry your analogy of the power supply one step
farther.  If someone obviously knows that their inquiry is probably not too
much related to ham radio and the use of computers for ham radio, to the
point where they will head a message with "off topic" then perhaps a better
choice would be to carry that inquiry to a list that does strictly deal with
computer use by the blind.  There are several around.  By comparison, I
don't really know of any that are dedicated to power supplies.  I guess what
I'm trying to say here is that if you feel what you are asking might be off
topic to the list, it probably is and you should probably take it to
another.  But, let's do be open to answering each other's questions or
providing advice, particularly if we are able to help one another.  I have
found that while we have that fault of jumping each other over slights and
disagreements, we as blind people are also some of the most giving of
ourselves and our time to help another blind person in need.  Let's combine
that trait with the general helpfulness of the ham to make this list a place
where all can feel free to seek answers or advice.

thanks for reading and very 73.


Kevin :)
Amateur Radio:  K7RX



-----Original Message-----
From: For blind ham radio operators [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Louis Kim Kline
Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 22:12
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Opinion on What Constitutes Off Topic

Hi.

Here is my take on what is suitable discussion for the list.  It seems clear
to me that computers in today's world are potentially as much a part of the
ham shack as a power supply would be.  Technically, a power supply is not a
piece of radio equipment, yet most of us use one and hardly anyone would
view a discussion about a power supply as being off topic.  If someone were
having a problem with one, all of us that had any suggestions for remedying
it would feel free to comment.

Many of us use computers for logging, still others run digital modes with
them, compute antenna headings for satellite work, use echo link, etc.  I
think the people who think that computers are off topic need to step back
and look at it with a more open mind.  And, if you are having a problem with
the computer, you probably shouldn't title your message with "Off Topic"
because that just agitates the list cops.

Having said that, I also think that people need to use restraint in the
kinds of things they deal with on the computer.  For example, I'd love to
know if any blind computer users have found a good screen reader friendly
Bible program that supports multiple translations, but I wouldn't post that
here because it is clearly not ham radio related.  Please, if you are
tempted to reply to that, contact me off list.

Regarding the topic that was being hashed over, I saw a number of people who
actually had some very intelligent points to make, and I was actually
enjoying the discussion and learning something besides.  Yes, I work in the
computer industry, and I still learn things from you guys from time to time.

Now, I will be the first to admit that there are topics on this list that do
not interest me.  Personally, I couldn't care less about echo link.  And it
gets a little tedious when a thread goes back and forth fifty times on a
subject for which I have no interest.  But, you know what?  That is the
nature of e-mail lists.

I personally think saying things like if we can't stick on topic then I'm
leaving the list is infantile and invites the kind of response that it got.
Just saying "Can we stick to the topic without threats would be received
very differently.

I have one more thing to say on this subject and then I will close and say
no more about it.  The thing that makes me uncomfortable with this list is
that some people would have us be so circumspect about what we say that it
gets to a point where I might know the answer to a problem that someone is
having but I don't want to say anything because I don't know who is going to
jump down my throat over it.  And, there is probably five other people on
the list who are looking at the responses because they don't know the answer
and are just as interested as the one who originally asked the opinion.

So my challenge is this.  Can we do two things--be a little less picky and
exercise some good judgement about what we want to bring to the list?

73, de Lou K2LKK



Louis Kim Kline
A.R.S. K2LKK
Home e-mail:  [log in to unmask]
Work e-mail:  [log in to unmask]
Work Telephone:  (585) 697-5753