Good testimony, Sheila.  Want to enlarge a bit?

--
Carol - Reading, UK

To you, o Lord, I lift up my soul;
In You I trust, o my God.  . . .."  PS25:1-2 NIV.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sheila Killian" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: The Second Place Jesus


> "give and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken
> together, and running over will be put in to your bosom.  For with the 
> same
> measure that you use, it will be measured back to you"  (Luke 6-38)
> Ever since I began the practice of titheing about sixteen months ago, my
> life has changed pretty dramatically! My experience has been that the more 
> I
> give cheerfully and willingly, expecting nothing back,  the more I 
> receive.
> I am not talking strictly monitarily, although this has also been true, 
> but
> giving of whatever I have to offer: time, energy, material items etc ... 
> the
> blessings have been overflowing!
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jenifer Gilley" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 2:30 PM
> Subject: Re: The Second Place Jesus
>
>
> :i have to agree with angel here.  I was always taught that you should 
> give
> : of the first-fruits because God has blessed you with a job.  You're 
> giving
> : to him what belongs to Him!
> : Jenifer gilley
> : "Friends are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble
> : remembering how to fly."
> : Author unknown
> : AIM: jenibear1998
> : msn
> : [log in to unmask]
> : ----- Original Message ----- 
> : From: "Angel" <[log in to unmask]>
> : To: <[log in to unmask]>
> : Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 12:12 AM
> : Subject: Re: The Second Place Jesus
> :
> :
> : > Shouldn't we give of the first fruits of what we are given?  Also, if 
> we
> : > really trusted that God would provide, as my grandmother use to say, 
> we
> : > would give our tithe off the top and trust God to provide the funds 
> for
> : > the
> : > light bills and such.  I say this as theory as this is what I believe
> the
> : > bible says concerning tithing, not what I do myself.  I am very bad as 
> I
> : > don't tithe at all.  I probably suffer too because of it in ways of
> which
> : > I
> : > am even unaware.  As God says we ought not to rob God.
> : > ----- Original Message -----
> : > From: "Phil Scovell" <[log in to unmask]>
> : > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> : > Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 10:13 PM
> : > Subject: The Second Place Jesus
> : >
> : >
> : >> This isn't completely finished but good enough to post on echurch.
> Once
> : >> I
> : >> have proof read it, I'll post it on my website.
> : >>
> : >> Phil.
> : >>
> : >>
> : >> The Second Place Jesus
> : >>
> : >> By Phil Scovell
> : >>
> : >>      While eating lunch recently, I reached over and turned on my
> : >> radio.  After finding little of interest on the secular stations,
> : >> I punched a memory buttons which takes me to one of several local
> : >> Christian radio stations.  A man was preaching.  I knew his voice
> : >> but couldn't place it.  The daily program had a few more minutes
> : >> remaining so I decided to listen in order that I might find out
> : >> who was doing the teaching.
> : >>
> : >>      He caught my interest, because he was teaching on tithing.
> : >> You know, giving ten percent of your earnings to the church?  I
> : >> didn't learn anything I hadn't heard before and since the Bible
> : >> doesn't teach tithing for the New Testament church, I was tempted
> : >> to change stations.  For some reason, I decided I really did want
> : >> to know who this man was so I listened.  Quite frankly, I was
> : >> shocked at some of the things this man was saying so let me
> : >> explain further.
> : >>
> : >>      First let me say that this man is well known all over Denver
> : >> and beyond.  He pastors one of the largest churches in Denver.  My
> : >> mom, before she died, was a member of this church for many years.
> : >> I consider the pastor to be a great man of God.  As you will see,
> : >> however, I don't agree with anything he teaches about tithing.
> : >>
> : >>      One of the first things I heard this man teaching was that
> : >> the tithe, or giving of a tenth of your income, is the first ten
> : >> percent.  If you pay all of your bills before tithing, he said
> : >> that you are not putting God first in your life.  Furthermore, he
> : >> claimed that God would not bless what you did give unless it was
> : >> the first ten percent.  Let me make sure you understood what was
> : >> just said by this pastor of this megachurch.  You absolutely must
> : >> write your first check to the church, his preferably I'm
> : >> assuming, or, he said, you are not putting God first in your life.
> : >> He further said, by way of illustration, if you pay your utility
> : >> bill before you write a check to the church when related to
> : >> tithing, that means you are putting your utility company before
> : >> God.  He even clarified by saying, even if you have enough after
> : >> paying all your bills, to still give ten percent, this form of
> : >> tithing will not be blessed of God because it won't be the first
> : >> ten percent of what you make.  Now, everyone who believes this,
> : >> stand on your head.  while you are doing that, show me in the
> : >> Bible where this is taught.  This pastor used Scripture but no
> : >> Scripture that even remotely said what he was proposing to be
> : >> Biblical truth.
> : >>
> : >>      Then he asked a question.  He said, "Does God have an
> : >> economy?"  Before he could say another word, I laughed out loud
> : >> and said, "Yes He does.  He owns everything.  Period.  End of
> : >> story."  "If I were hungry, I would not tell you: For the world is
> : >> mine, and the fullness thereof," (Psalm 50:12).  When the pastor
> : >> continued, he insisted the tithe was God's economy.  Poor God.  He
> : >> sure has lost a lot over the centuries.  Probably do to the down
> : >> sizing type sermons many preach today.
> : >>
> : >>      It was what the pastor said next that blew me away.  He said,
> : >> "Did you know that only 12 percent of the members of this church
> : >> tithe?"  He repeated it twice just in case, I suppose, someone
> : >> was sleeping and missed it the first time.  I said, once again out
> : >> loud, "How do you know that, pastor?"  How would he know this?
> : >> Can you guess?  The only way he could know is if, one, he has
> : >> checked the offering records the church keeps by name, and two, he
> : >> would have to somehow know the personal incomes of everybody that
> : >> comes to his church.  So, how does he know that only 12 percent of
> : >> his church are tithers?  That's right, he doesn't know.  He said
> : >> it for effect to try and make people feel badly about not being a
> : >> tither and thus not being a real part of the church.  In short, he
> : >> was attempting to control, and to manipulate, people into doing
> : >> what he believes the Bible teaches.  Any time you are being
> : >> manipulated or controlled, you are under unholy influence.
> : >>
> : >>      Another great pastor in my area once said that you could not
> : >> even be a deacon, an elder, or on his staff unless you were a
> : >> tither.  Then he said, "And I check the records to make sure,
> : >> too."  Does that bother you or is it just me?
> : >>
> : >>      Let me tell you something about this megachurch to which I
> : >> was referring.  The church claims to run 5,000 people through
> : >> their doors in two mornings services and one evening service.
> : >> They have a Christian school from K through 12 running well over
> : >> 1,000 students.  they own property and buildings all over the
> : >> metro area and they are spreading out.  Sometimes, they buy entire
> : >> church buildings and properties from churches that have folded or
> : >> dwindled to the point they can no longer support their own
> : >> ministry.  I heard from a direct source that this same mega church
> : >> pays cash for everything they buy or build.  At that time, and
> : >> this was a good 10 years ago, this mega church purchased a 1.5
> : >> million dollar building and paid cash for it and it wasn't even
> : >> their main church facility; it was to start a branch church.  In
> : >> short, this church has no financial problems but you might
> : >> otherwise get that impression by listening to the pastor sermon
> : >> that day.
> : >>
> : >>      My mother called me one day many years ago and said something
> : >> happened at church that was bothering her.  She wanted to know why
> : >> she felt uncomfortable about it.  She told me the story.
> : >>
> : >>      One morning, the pastor got up and told everyone that they,
> : >> the members, are always giving to the church and that this
> : >> particular day, the church wanted to give back to its members.
> : >> Sealed envelopes were then passed out.  Once the members were
> : >> given permission to open their envelopes, each one contained a
> : >> single ten dollar bill.  Later, mom said the church was told that
> : >> 30,000 dollars had been given away that day.  Hold the phone,
> : >> sister, church ain't over until the fat lady sings so don't get
> : >> ahead of me now in my story.  The pastor gave further
> : >> instructions.  You could spend the ten dollars on yourself, give
> : >> it to someone in need, go out to eat lunch on it after church, not
> : >> on ten dollars you couldn't, or you could, if you really wanted
> : >> to, give it back to the church.  What would you do?  My mom put it
> : >> into the offerings.  Later, the pastor told the church that there
> : >> offerings that next week, doubled.  I wonder why?  He said that
> : >> people put their ten dollars back in to the church and gave more
> : >> on top of that and that was why that single days offerings
> : >> doubled.  Question.  Does this smack of a spiritual gimmick to
> : >> you, that is, a marketing tool, or just good church business?
> : >> Perhaps you even think it is spiritual?  You decide.
> : >>
> : >>      This pastor concluded his radio message, it was actually a
> : >> recording of one of their Sunday services, by emphasizing the
> : >> absolute importance of putting Jesus first in your life.  Of
> : >> course, you are barred from doing this very thing unless you give
> : >> the first ten percent of your income to the Lord.  Well, there
> : >> goes Jesus again.  Instead of being the Chief Cornerstone of the
> : >> Body of Christ, The Church, He is relegated to a position behind
> : >> the tithe.
> : >>
> : >>      The Lord showed me the truth about this many years ago.  It
> : >> is not what you give to God that's important, it is if you are
> : >> given to God that counts.
> : >>
> : >>      For reference material that goes into much more detail, click
> : >> on one of the links below.
> : >>
> : >> Phil.
> : >>
> : >> http://www.redwhiteandblue.org/christian/plstexts/GIVEN.HTM
> : >> http://www.redwhiteandblue.org/christian/plstexts/TITHE.HTM
> : >>
> : >>