Shouldn't we give of the first fruits of what we are given?  Also, if we
really trusted that God would provide, as my grandmother use to say, we
would give our tithe off the top and trust God to provide the funds for the
light bills and such.  I say this as theory as this is what I believe the
bible says concerning tithing, not what I do myself.  I am very bad as I
don't tithe at all.  I probably suffer too because of it in ways of which I
am even unaware.  As God says we ought not to rob God.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Scovell" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2006 10:13 PM
Subject: The Second Place Jesus


> This isn't completely finished but good enough to post on echurch.  Once I
> have proof read it, I'll post it on my website.
>
> Phil.
>
>
> The Second Place Jesus
>
> By Phil Scovell
>
>      While eating lunch recently, I reached over and turned on my
> radio.  After finding little of interest on the secular stations,
> I punched a memory buttons which takes me to one of several local
> Christian radio stations.  A man was preaching.  I knew his voice
> but couldn't place it.  The daily program had a few more minutes
> remaining so I decided to listen in order that I might find out
> who was doing the teaching.
>
>      He caught my interest, because he was teaching on tithing.
> You know, giving ten percent of your earnings to the church?  I
> didn't learn anything I hadn't heard before and since the Bible
> doesn't teach tithing for the New Testament church, I was tempted
> to change stations.  For some reason, I decided I really did want
> to know who this man was so I listened.  Quite frankly, I was
> shocked at some of the things this man was saying so let me
> explain further.
>
>      First let me say that this man is well known all over Denver
> and beyond.  He pastors one of the largest churches in Denver.  My
> mom, before she died, was a member of this church for many years.
> I consider the pastor to be a great man of God.  As you will see,
> however, I don't agree with anything he teaches about tithing.
>
>      One of the first things I heard this man teaching was that
> the tithe, or giving of a tenth of your income, is the first ten
> percent.  If you pay all of your bills before tithing, he said
> that you are not putting God first in your life.  Furthermore, he
> claimed that God would not bless what you did give unless it was
> the first ten percent.  Let me make sure you understood what was
> just said by this pastor of this megachurch.  You absolutely must
> write your first check to the church, his preferably I'm
> assuming, or, he said, you are not putting God first in your life.
> He further said, by way of illustration, if you pay your utility
> bill before you write a check to the church when related to
> tithing, that means you are putting your utility company before
> God.  He even clarified by saying, even if you have enough after
> paying all your bills, to still give ten percent, this form of
> tithing will not be blessed of God because it won't be the first
> ten percent of what you make.  Now, everyone who believes this,
> stand on your head.  while you are doing that, show me in the
> Bible where this is taught.  This pastor used Scripture but no
> Scripture that even remotely said what he was proposing to be
> Biblical truth.
>
>      Then he asked a question.  He said, "Does God have an
> economy?"  Before he could say another word, I laughed out loud
> and said, "Yes He does.  He owns everything.  Period.  End of
> story."  "If I were hungry, I would not tell you: For the world is
> mine, and the fullness thereof," (Psalm 50:12).  When the pastor
> continued, he insisted the tithe was God's economy.  Poor God.  He
> sure has lost a lot over the centuries.  Probably do to the down
> sizing type sermons many preach today.
>
>      It was what the pastor said next that blew me away.  He said,
> "Did you know that only 12 percent of the members of this church
> tithe?"  He repeated it twice just in case, I suppose, someone
> was sleeping and missed it the first time.  I said, once again out
> loud, "How do you know that, pastor?"  How would he know this?
> Can you guess?  The only way he could know is if, one, he has
> checked the offering records the church keeps by name, and two, he
> would have to somehow know the personal incomes of everybody that
> comes to his church.  So, how does he know that only 12 percent of
> his church are tithers?  That's right, he doesn't know.  He said
> it for effect to try and make people feel badly about not being a
> tither and thus not being a real part of the church.  In short, he
> was attempting to control, and to manipulate, people into doing
> what he believes the Bible teaches.  Any time you are being
> manipulated or controlled, you are under unholy influence.
>
>      Another great pastor in my area once said that you could not
> even be a deacon, an elder, or on his staff unless you were a
> tither.  Then he said, "And I check the records to make sure,
> too."  Does that bother you or is it just me?
>
>      Let me tell you something about this megachurch to which I
> was referring.  The church claims to run 5,000 people through
> their doors in two mornings services and one evening service.
> They have a Christian school from K through 12 running well over
> 1,000 students.  they own property and buildings all over the
> metro area and they are spreading out.  Sometimes, they buy entire
> church buildings and properties from churches that have folded or
> dwindled to the point they can no longer support their own
> ministry.  I heard from a direct source that this same mega church
> pays cash for everything they buy or build.  At that time, and
> this was a good 10 years ago, this mega church purchased a 1.5
> million dollar building and paid cash for it and it wasn't even
> their main church facility; it was to start a branch church.  In
> short, this church has no financial problems but you might
> otherwise get that impression by listening to the pastor sermon
> that day.
>
>      My mother called me one day many years ago and said something
> happened at church that was bothering her.  She wanted to know why
> she felt uncomfortable about it.  She told me the story.
>
>      One morning, the pastor got up and told everyone that they,
> the members, are always giving to the church and that this
> particular day, the church wanted to give back to its members.
> Sealed envelopes were then passed out.  Once the members were
> given permission to open their envelopes, each one contained a
> single ten dollar bill.  Later, mom said the church was told that
> 30,000 dollars had been given away that day.  Hold the phone,
> sister, church ain't over until the fat lady sings so don't get
> ahead of me now in my story.  The pastor gave further
> instructions.  You could spend the ten dollars on yourself, give
> it to someone in need, go out to eat lunch on it after church, not
> on ten dollars you couldn't, or you could, if you really wanted
> to, give it back to the church.  What would you do?  My mom put it
> into the offerings.  Later, the pastor told the church that there
> offerings that next week, doubled.  I wonder why?  He said that
> people put their ten dollars back in to the church and gave more
> on top of that and that was why that single days offerings
> doubled.  Question.  Does this smack of a spiritual gimmick to
> you, that is, a marketing tool, or just good church business?
> Perhaps you even think it is spiritual?  You decide.
>
>      This pastor concluded his radio message, it was actually a
> recording of one of their Sunday services, by emphasizing the
> absolute importance of putting Jesus first in your life.  Of
> course, you are barred from doing this very thing unless you give
> the first ten percent of your income to the Lord.  Well, there
> goes Jesus again.  Instead of being the Chief Cornerstone of the
> Body of Christ, The Church, He is relegated to a position behind
> the tithe.
>
>      The Lord showed me the truth about this many years ago.  It
> is not what you give to God that's important, it is if you are
> given to God that counts.
>
>      For reference material that goes into much more detail, click
> on one of the links below.
>
> Phil.
>
> http://www.redwhiteandblue.org/christian/plstexts/GIVEN.HTM
> http://www.redwhiteandblue.org/christian/plstexts/TITHE.HTM
>
> 
>
> Has He Ever Crossed Your Mind?
> www.SafePlaceFellowship.com