John,
I agree with you here.  I get so frustrated when people bring the 
Living Bible to bible study and think that they are handling a 
translation, or worse yet, think that their's no big deal in using it 
for study.    You can't do serious study on someone else's opinions 
of what the word says!  By the way, while I like the NIV, I 
understand that the New American Standard supposedly is a more 
accurate translation and I'm not crazy at all about the TNIV, which 
has attempted to neuter God.  That is going too far for me, for sure.
Kathy


At 05:05 PM 7/6/2006, you wrote:
>Dory, I am not a King James only but call myself a King James 
>mainly.  The problem that I have with modern translations is that 
>many people do not differentiate between a translation and a 
>paraphrase.  When getting into a paraphrase, you are getting 
>somebody's opinion and not a good translation of the 
>languages.  Although I don't think the KJV is inspired, the King 
>James only crowd makes some good points in favor of the KJV.
>
>earlier, Chipmunks, wrote:
>>Oh, I have known and used Theophilos for several years and 
>>appreciate its accessibility.
>>
>>i just mentioned E-Sword because it comes with several free modern 
>>Bible Translations .
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Doris
>>
>>
>>At 09:39 AM 7/6/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>>
>>>Doris,
>>>
>>>I dont' know much about e-sward, but i use Theophilos.  The KJV 
>>>and some older translations are free, and then you can purchase 
>>>packages to get newer translations as well as Bible comentaries 
>>>and dictionaries.  I think this program has been mentioned on the 
>>>list before, but it's good.  The site is
>>>http://www.theophilos.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>JulieMelton
>>>visit me at
>>>www.heart-and-music.com
>>>Keep smiling!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>From: Chipmunks <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>Reply-To: The Electronic Church <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>Subject: Re: READING AND RESPONDING TO DIFFERENT TRANSLATIONS OF THE BIBLE
>>>>Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:02:23 +0200
>>>>
>>>>I take it the AV is the equivalent of the KJV? Over the years 
>>>>since becoming a Christian, I have encountered many individuals 
>>>>who preferred the KJV bible and several who actually think it to 
>>>>be the only inspired bible version. My husband and I once even 
>>>>encountered a Bible college who had "Sole Scriptua, sole KJV" as 
>>>>the motto they wentby.
>>>>
>>>>Being a non-native speaker of English originally, I grew up 
>>>>without any tradition of any particular Bible version. I cannot 
>>>>subscribbe to any doctrine of the KJV being the only inspired 
>>>>bible translation for the simple fact that there are hundreds of 
>>>>bible translations in other languages besides English and I think 
>>>>they are as valid as any English translation and this very fact 
>>>>already prooves to methat there cannot be just one legitimate 
>>>>Bible version or translation.
>>>>
>>>>After devouring a good part of the Old Testament of a German 
>>>>bible as a second grader before becoming bored with the 
>>>>repitition of Chronicles after The Books of Samuel and Kings, my 
>>>>first encounter with the Bible as a young adult was actually with 
>>>>the KJV. I had heard that the KJV used language very similar to 
>>>>Shakespearean English, which I loved,and i originally set out to 
>>>>read the bible as literature for the beauty of its language. I 
>>>>first met the Messiah in passages from Psalms and the Prophets 
>>>>and in KJV English.
>>>>
>>>>When I started reading for meaning and content, I found the KJV 
>>>>fairly archaic and hard to understand.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I started reading more modern translations. I have always enjoyed 
>>>>working with different translations and comparing them. I find 
>>>>this very enriching and the next best thing to being able to read 
>>>>the bible in the original Greek and Hebrew. the church I attended 
>>>>as a young Christian encouraged the use of multiple bible 
>>>>translations and I much enjoyed our weekly bible studies where 
>>>>people brought their preferred trnaslation and we took turns 
>>>>reading passages. It was enriching to compare versions at times.
>>>>
>>>>I did over time adopt a translation that I used the most and as 
>>>>Carol said, when I remember verses or passages, the wording is 
>>>>that of my preferred translation usually, but I maintain my 
>>>>interest and enjoyment of multiple translations.
>>>>
>>>>When discussing the validity of the use of modern translations in 
>>>>contemporary English over the traditional translation of the KJV, 
>>>>i think it is important to remember that the Scriptures in the 
>>>>original languages, especially the New Testament, were not 
>>>>written in any one particular literary style. the old Testament 
>>>>is a library of many different styles of literature, ranging from 
>>>>the beautiful poetry of the PPsalms in the Jewish Hymanal to the 
>>>>historical accounts of the Jewish Scriptures. The New Testament 
>>>>was not written in Classical lliterary Greek but in the 
>>>>colloquial Greek that Jesus contemporaries spoke, many of which 
>>>>were non-native speakers of Greek, as were the majority of the 
>>>>New Testament authors.
>>>>
>>>>I find the variety of translations refreshing and enriching and 
>>>>think it is most important to prayerfully consider which 
>>>>translation works best for the individual to receive God's work.
>>>>
>>>>Anyone intersted in studying multiple tramslations of the Bible 
>>>>might want to have a look at the free E-Sword Bible package available from
>>>>
>>>>www.e-sword.net
>>>>
>>>>While not that easily accessible, the latest version of E-Sword 
>>>>works well enough with speech to permit reading of different 
>>>>Bible versions. Unfortuantely I find that the notes and 
>>>>commentaries remain inaccessible to me. If anyone on here has 
>>>>found jaws scripts for E-Sword or come up with a way to access 
>>>>all the material and resources in the program, i would be 
>>>>grateful for a pointer.
>>>>
>>>>Cheers,
>>>>
>>>>Doris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>At 09:54 AM 7/6/2006 +0100, you wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hi there Sharon, and all,
>>>>>
>>>>>Hmmm!  I have been thinking over the past hour or two, since 
>>>>>seeing your message . . ..  (I've taken the liberty of changing 
>>>>>the subject header here because some may find that "upgrading" 
>>>>>thought a little tackey.
>>>>>
>>>>>First, in full defence of the AV, I am very prepared to agree 
>>>>>its outstanding accuracy and truthfulness and the need for this 
>>>>>in the Church. I know and respect those who feel so passionately 
>>>>>they wouldn't use anything else!  (I even know some on this list 
>>>>>and I reckon they won't keep quiet for too long <SMILE>!)
>>>>>
>>>>>For me, I grew up with the AV and learned and got to know its 
>>>>>wording so well that, if I am imprisoned or without a Bible in 
>>>>>later years, I know these are the words I will be crying 
>>>>>out!  Therefore, there is something very special for me about the AV.
>>>>>
>>>>>However, alongside this, I do find its archaic, old English 
>>>>>language both a bit sweet and treakley and certainly it's 
>>>>>something which I do not fully understand or identify with.  For 
>>>>>example, I even find 1 Corinthians 13 causes me to feel I'm 
>>>>>being called (though not drawn) to the litergy of the church and 
>>>>>not the real meaning of the passage on occasions, especially 
>>>>>when this is delivered in a large church with a lot of echo, and 
>>>>>for me there are far better, more modern, translations of that 
>>>>>lovely passage.  It is for this reason that I still read the old 
>>>>>but also more modern translations and allow God to speak with me 
>>>>>and refresh me as I do so!
>>>>>
>>>>>Your example in Luke 7 is so right, to my mind.  "Cry" and 
>>>>>"weep" are words I understand and appreciate, and even think 
>>>>>there is a difference between them, and that comment is based on 
>>>>>my own experience.  Why say something more when these words are adequate!
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't want to say too much about individual versions, but I do 
>>>>>keep a copy of the NIV around on my BrailleNote because it sort 
>>>>>of is the general version I can keep with me.  I love, love the 
>>>>>Amplified, when I want to think some more about words!  There 
>>>>>are some very refreshing things about The Message Bible 
>>>>>also.  In some ways its language gets me a bit hot under the 
>>>>>collar (perhaps it's a little over the top in some of its 
>>>>>"American expression" for us Britts) but in others I find it 
>>>>>refreshing.  It seems to move on a pace that cannot be conveyed 
>>>>>to me as I read the AV.  I think you would like to read the 
>>>>>Message and maybe you already have it.  (The Message also uses 
>>>>>the word "cry" in that passage, by the way, Sharon.)
>>>>>
>>>>>Finally, here's one further thought which I want to convey and 
>>>>>it's meant by no means to take away any of the truth and 
>>>>>reverence of the older versions of the Bible.  My thinking goes 
>>>>>something like this:  "Well, Jesus expresses Himself to us in 
>>>>>ways we can understand.  He meets us where we are.  He speaks 
>>>>>words in the church which often are brought by younger, 
>>>>>enthusiastic ones whose language understanding and presentation 
>>>>>is more like the Message than the AV.  So be it!  God will still 
>>>>>speak His truth into hungry hearts! God will still make His ways 
>>>>>known!  I personally don't want to examine every word etc for 
>>>>>its accuracy either, because I'm not that kind of scholar, but I 
>>>>>do want to be blessed inside as I read His word!
>>>>>
>>>>>Anyway, I'm off my soap box now.  Have been up many hours so 
>>>>>guess it's brunchtime for me!
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>Carol
>>>>>[log in to unmask]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon Hooley" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 7:27 AM
>>>>>Subject: Upgrading Versions of the bible?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Well Julie, of course the Bible doesn't change, but our 
>>>>>>understanding of some things in the bible can change as we grow 
>>>>>>in the Lord, and maybe it's possible to "upgrade" as far as 
>>>>>>contemporary language is concerned, not to change the meaning 
>>>>>>of what the Bible says, but to speak our everyday 
>>>>>>language.  Unfortunately, many of those who create a new 
>>>>>>translation tend to try to make the bible say what they want it 
>>>>>>to say, instead of what it's really saying.  Personally, I want 
>>>>>>my bible to speak the language I use, not the ancient language 
>>>>>>of the KJV, as long as the modern translation is 
>>>>>>accurate.  From the bible, I wish I could hear things like, 
>>>>>>"Serving God is so much fun!  So cool!"  But I need to remind 
>>>>>>myself that, even if I read it in an ancient language, it can 
>>>>>>be just as expressive as we are today.  For example, there's 
>>>>>>the story about when Jesus approached a funeral procession. His 
>>>>>>hart went out to the widow who had just lost her son.  In the 
>>>>>>KJV, we read, "Weep not."  But in the NIV, (which may not be a 
>>>>>>perfectly accurate translation), we hear Him simply saying, 
>>>>>>"Don't cry." I would rather hear the latter, but maybe, just 
>>>>>>maybe, Jesus is depicted just as strongly compassionate, 
>>>>>>affectionate and comforting, in the KJV. What are your thoughts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sharon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>--
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>--
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>>>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>John
>