Cynthia wrote:
> Lastly, I should probably start a new thread for this, but it 
> ties into the other discussions on this thread: I read this 
> website article that discusses the relation between higher 
> fat and weight loss. I am very curious to know your opinions. 
>  http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/fat-not-protein.html

OK, since you asked, here is what I noted:

Groves:
"We now know that we should eat a diet that is low in carbohydrates. ... the
real confusion lies in what we should replace the carbohydrates with: for
example, should it be protein or fats?"

It depends on what one considers low carb. If low carb means zero carbs then
you reportedly need at least 70% fat. As you raise the carbs above that you
can lower the fat and also increase the protein a bit. 

Groves:
"All traditional carnivorous diets, whether eaten by animals or humans, are
more fat than protein with a ratio of about eighty percent of calories from
fat and twenty percent of calories from protein."

That's basically true if you eat a carnivorous diet (though I read that the
minimum safe proportion of fat on a carnivorous diet for humans is 70%), but
humans are omnivores rather than carnivores.

Groves:
"When we cut down on carbs, the energy our bodies need has to come from
somewhere else. 

There are only two choices: Protein or fat."

Or both.

Groves:
"Ketone formation and a shift to using more fatty acids also reduces the
body's overall need for glucose."

Sounds good.

Groves:
"When proteins are used to provide energy, these must be got rid of in some
way. This is not only wasteful, it can put a strain on the body,
particularly on the liver and kidneys."

The article that I think Todd linked to appeared to put this concern to
rest.

Groves:
"Stefansson had already lived for nearly twenty years on an all-meat diet
with the Canadian Inuit."

I wouldn't recommend an all-meat/organ diet because it's very difficult to
get the amounts of raw organs, "healthy" fat ratios and nutrients that the
traditional Inuit got and it is not necessary to eat only meat and organs
(again, humans are omnivores). Plus, even the most carnivorous Inuit group
that has been studied by people other than Stefansson did eat 1 or 2% plant
foods, as I recall.

Groves:
"In the early trials for the treatment of obesity, carb levels were very
much reduced to supply only about ten percent of calories."

At only 10% carbs you would indeed need much more fats than proteins, but
very few HG peoples of the 20th century ate that little carbs. Some of the
!Kung, for example, ate 2/3 plant foods.

Groves:
"On [the Inuit] diet, blood cholesterol levels were very high as were free
fatty acids, but – and this in much more important – triglycerides were low.
[xvii] [xviii]"

[xvii]. Bang HO, Dyerberg J, Nielsen AB: Plasma lipid and lipoprotein
pattern in Greenlandic West-Coast Eskimos. Lancet 1971; I:1143–1146.

[xviii]. Feldman SA, Ho KJ, Lewis LA, et al. Lipid and cholesterol
metabolism in Alaskan arctic Eskimos. Arch Pathol 1972; 94:42–58.

Actually, Bang, Dyerberg and Nielsen's study found that Inuit Eskimo blood
cholesterol levels were very LOW, not very high, and this fact is widely
known because the Bang and Dyerberg studies are famous (it was Bang and
Dyerberg who first speculated that omega 3 FA's might account for the
Inuit's low level of atherosclerosis and LDL), so that doesn't do much for
Groves' credibility on this subject. Following are some reports that talk
about the low LDL levels that Bang and Dyerberg found in Eskimos. Note that
Feldman's team is also cited in a report that says that Inuit Eskimo LDL
levels were found to be very low.

	"In their classic study of Greenland Eskimos who had a near absence
of CVD, Bang and Dyerberg (1980) contrasted the dietary and blood lipid
profiles of the Eskimos to Danes (Table 3). Despite a much greater animal
food intake than the Danes, the Eskimos maintained a more healthful blood
lipid profile (lower LDL, VLDL and total cholesterol concentrations, lower
TG concentrations and higher HDL concentrations)." (Cordain L, Eaton SB,
Brand Miller J, Mann N, Hill K. The paradoxical nature of hunter-gatherer
diets: Meat based, yet non-atherogenic. Eur J Clin Nutr 2002; 56 (suppl
1):S42-S52. thepaleodiet.com)

	"Studies conducted in Greenland (3,4) have attributed low mortality
from myocardial infarction to a delayed atherosclerotic process because of
low levels of cholesterol, triglyceride, low-density lipoprotein and very
low-density lipoprotein concentrations in the Eskimo." (Newman, William P
III et al, Comparison of atherosclerosis in Alaska natives and nonnatives,
Arch Pathol Lab Med. 1997;121:1069-1075,
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3725/is_199710/ai_n8771370)

1. Bang HO, Dyerberg J, Nielsen AB. Plasma lipid and lipoprotein pattern in
Greenlandic west coast Eskimos. Lancet.1971;1:1143-1146.

2. Feldman SA, Ho K-J, Lewis LA, Mikkelson B, Taylor CB. Lipid and
cholesterol metabolism in Alaskan Arctic eskimos. Arch PathoL 1972;94:42-58.

3. Bang HO, Dyerberg J. Plasma lipids and lipoproteins in Greenlandic west
coast Eskimos. Acta Med Scand. 1972;192:85-94. 

4. Bang HO, Dyerberg J. Lipid metabolism and ischemic heart disease in
Greenland Eskimos. Adv Nutr Res.1980;3:1-22.

I found it troubling that Groves would so misrepresent Bang and Dyerberg's
findings, so I did some investigating and found that this may not be the
first time he has misrepresented studies (though the source has a competing
diet, so he does have a conflicting interest):

	"Each time Barry Groves reports on a medical study he gave a
different conclusion to the data than the researchers do...." --Dr. Joel
Fuhrman,
http://www.diseaseproof.com/archives/diet-myths-the-misinformation-of-barry-
groves-and-weston-price.html  [I don't agree with many of the opinions at
Fuhrman's site, but it is interesting that Fuhrman reports additional cases
of Groves misrepresenting study results.]