Dory, I would have to agree with your conservative friends but I
won't do any chewing. <smile>
earlier, Chipmunks, wrote:
>Oh, yeh, I know the difference. They exist in both my languages.
>
>When looking for a strictly easy to read version, I might turn to
>something like the NIRV (New International Reader's Version) rather
>than a paraphrase.
>
>I've heard differing opinions on one English version I like also:
>The Good News Bible (Today's English Version). Some consider it a
>modern translation while some people have denounced it as a paraphrase.
>
>We used the Good News bible in my church's youth group 20 years ago
>and some of my more conservative friends chewed me out because of this.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Doris At 02:08 PM 7/7/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>Dory, as long as you know the difference between a paraphrase and
>>a translation, that's ok. A paraphrase is sort of like a commentary.
>>
>>earlier, Chipmunks, wrote:
>>>Hi, John,
>>>
>>>i agree with you on the translation vs. paraphrase issue wholeheartedly.
>>>
>>>I knew someone who couldn't even differentiate between the
>>>paraphrased Bible text in their version and the commentary notes
>>>the author had added.
>>>
>>>I use a paraphrase occasionally myself for easy reading but always
>>>together with at least one other traditional translation. I also
>>>like to have a more modern translation along when I enjoy the KJV. <g>
>>>
>>>AS for the TNIV, I have a copy flying around here somewhere but I
>>>have not studied it enough to form any opinion on it. I know that
>>>the TNIV uses inclusive language. this by itself would not be
>>>enough for me to reject a translation as I think this is
>>>something reflecting changes in language usage and allso the
>>>audience and their culture it addresses rather than a theological
>>>question. I am not sure I understand the reference to "neutering
>>>God" as regards to the TNIB. The NRSV, which is the translation I
>>>prefer to use, does use some inclusive language as it renders the
>>>more traditional "Brethren" as "Brothers and Sisters," for example
>>>but from the way I read it, it takes away nothing from God.
>>>
>>>I had forgotten you were on this list also, John. It's nice to see
>>>familiar names. :-)
>>>
>>>Take care ...
>>>
>>>Doris
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>At 06:55 AM 7/7/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>>>
>>>>John,
>>>>I agree with you here. I get so frustrated when people bring the
>>>>Living Bible to bible study and think that they are handling a
>>>>translation, or worse yet, think that their's no big deal in
>>>>using it for study. You can't do serious study on someone
>>>>else's opinions of what the word says! By the way, while I like
>>>>the NIV, I understand that the New American Standard supposedly
>>>>is a more accurate translation and I'm not crazy at all about the
>>>>TNIV, which has attempted to neuter God. That is going too far
>>>>for me, for sure.
>>>>Kathy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>At 05:05 PM 7/6/2006, you wrote:
>>>>>Dory, I am not a King James only but call myself a King James
>>>>>mainly. The problem that I have with modern translations is
>>>>>that many people do not differentiate between a translation and
>>>>>a paraphrase. When getting into a paraphrase, you are getting
>>>>>somebody's opinion and not a good translation of the
>>>>>languages. Although I don't think the KJV is inspired, the King
>>>>>James only crowd makes some good points in favor of the KJV.
>>>>>
>>>>>earlier, Chipmunks, wrote:
>>>>>>Oh, I have known and used Theophilos for several years and
>>>>>>appreciate its accessibility.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>i just mentioned E-Sword because it comes with several free
>>>>>>modern Bible Translations .
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Doris
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>At 09:39 AM 7/6/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Doris,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I dont' know much about e-sward, but i use Theophilos. The
>>>>>>>KJV and some older translations are free, and then you can
>>>>>>>purchase packages to get newer translations as well as Bible
>>>>>>>comentaries and dictionaries. I think this program has been
>>>>>>>mentioned on the list before, but it's good. The site is
>>>>>>>http://www.theophilos.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>JulieMelton
>>>>>>>visit me at
>>>>>>>www.heart-and-music.com
>>>>>>>Keep smiling!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>From: Chipmunks <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>>Reply-To: The Electronic Church <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: READING AND RESPONDING TO DIFFERENT TRANSLATIONS
>>>>>>>>OF THE BIBLE
>>>>>>>>Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:02:23 +0200
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I take it the AV is the equivalent of the KJV? Over the years
>>>>>>>>since becoming a Christian, I have encountered many
>>>>>>>>individuals who preferred the KJV bible and several who
>>>>>>>>actually think it to be the only inspired bible version. My
>>>>>>>>husband and I once even encountered a Bible college who had
>>>>>>>>"Sole Scriptua, sole KJV" as the motto they wentby.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Being a non-native speaker of English originally, I grew up
>>>>>>>>without any tradition of any particular Bible version. I
>>>>>>>>cannot subscribbe to any doctrine of the KJV being the only
>>>>>>>>inspired bible translation for the simple fact that there are
>>>>>>>>hundreds of bible translations in other languages besides
>>>>>>>>English and I think they are as valid as any English
>>>>>>>>translation and this very fact already prooves to methat
>>>>>>>>there cannot be just one legitimate Bible version or translation.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>After devouring a good part of the Old Testament of a German
>>>>>>>>bible as a second grader before becoming bored with the
>>>>>>>>repitition of Chronicles after The Books of Samuel and Kings,
>>>>>>>>my first encounter with the Bible as a young adult was
>>>>>>>>actually with the KJV. I had heard that the KJV used language
>>>>>>>>very similar to Shakespearean English, which I loved,and i
>>>>>>>>originally set out to read the bible as literature for the
>>>>>>>>beauty of its language. I first met the Messiah in passages
>>>>>>>>from Psalms and the Prophets and in KJV English.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>When I started reading for meaning and content, I found the
>>>>>>>>KJV fairly archaic and hard to understand.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I started reading more modern translations. I have always
>>>>>>>>enjoyed working with different translations and comparing
>>>>>>>>them. I find this very enriching and the next best thing to
>>>>>>>>being able to read the bible in the original Greek and
>>>>>>>>Hebrew. the church I attended as a young Christian encouraged
>>>>>>>>the use of multiple bible translations and I much enjoyed our
>>>>>>>>weekly bible studies where people brought their preferred
>>>>>>>>trnaslation and we took turns reading passages. It was
>>>>>>>>enriching to compare versions at times.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I did over time adopt a translation that I used the most and
>>>>>>>>as Carol said, when I remember verses or passages, the
>>>>>>>>wording is that of my preferred translation usually, but I
>>>>>>>>maintain my interest and enjoyment of multiple translations.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>When discussing the validity of the use of modern
>>>>>>>>translations in contemporary English over the traditional
>>>>>>>>translation of the KJV, i think it is important to remember
>>>>>>>>that the Scriptures in the original languages, especially the
>>>>>>>>New Testament, were not written in any one particular
>>>>>>>>literary style. the old Testament is a library of many
>>>>>>>>different styles of literature, ranging from the beautiful
>>>>>>>>poetry of the PPsalms in the Jewish Hymanal to the historical
>>>>>>>>accounts of the Jewish Scriptures. The New Testament was not
>>>>>>>>written in Classical lliterary Greek but in the colloquial
>>>>>>>>Greek that Jesus contemporaries spoke, many of which were
>>>>>>>>non-native speakers of Greek, as were the majority of the New
>>>>>>>>Testament authors.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I find the variety of translations refreshing and enriching
>>>>>>>>and think it is most important to prayerfully consider which
>>>>>>>>translation works best for the individual to receive God's work.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Anyone intersted in studying multiple tramslations of the
>>>>>>>>Bible might want to have a look at the free E-Sword Bible
>>>>>>>>package available from
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>www.e-sword.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>While not that easily accessible, the latest version of
>>>>>>>>E-Sword works well enough with speech to permit reading of
>>>>>>>>different Bible versions. Unfortuantely I find that the notes
>>>>>>>>and commentaries remain inaccessible to me. If anyone on here
>>>>>>>>has found jaws scripts for E-Sword or come up with a way to
>>>>>>>>access all the material and resources in the program, i would
>>>>>>>>be grateful for a pointer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Doris
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>At 09:54 AM 7/6/2006 +0100, you wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Hi there Sharon, and all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Hmmm! I have been thinking over the past hour or two, since
>>>>>>>>>seeing your message . . .. (I've taken the liberty of
>>>>>>>>>changing the subject header here because some may find that
>>>>>>>>>"upgrading" thought a little tackey.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>First, in full defence of the AV, I am very prepared to
>>>>>>>>>agree its outstanding accuracy and truthfulness and the need
>>>>>>>>>for this in the Church. I know and respect those who feel so
>>>>>>>>>passionately they wouldn't use anything else! (I even know
>>>>>>>>>some on this list and I reckon they won't keep quiet for too long <SMILE>!)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>For me, I grew up with the AV and learned and got to know
>>>>>>>>>its wording so well that, if I am imprisoned or without a
>>>>>>>>>Bible in later years, I know these are the words I will be
>>>>>>>>>crying out! Therefore, there is something very special for me about the AV.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>However, alongside this, I do find its archaic, old English
>>>>>>>>>language both a bit sweet and treakley and certainly it's
>>>>>>>>>something which I do not fully understand or identify
>>>>>>>>>with. For example, I even find 1 Corinthians 13 causes me
>>>>>>>>>to feel I'm being called (though not drawn) to the litergy
>>>>>>>>>of the church and not the real meaning of the passage on
>>>>>>>>>occasions, especially when this is delivered in a large
>>>>>>>>>church with a lot of echo, and for me there are far better,
>>>>>>>>>more modern, translations of that lovely passage. It is for
>>>>>>>>>this reason that I still read the old but also more modern
>>>>>>>>>translations and allow God to speak with me and refresh me as I do so!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Your example in Luke 7 is so right, to my mind. "Cry" and
>>>>>>>>>"weep" are words I understand and appreciate, and even think
>>>>>>>>>there is a difference between them, and that comment is
>>>>>>>>>based on my own experience. Why say something more when
>>>>>>>>>these words are adequate!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I don't want to say too much about individual versions, but
>>>>>>>>>I do keep a copy of the NIV around on my BrailleNote because
>>>>>>>>>it sort of is the general version I can keep with me. I
>>>>>>>>>love, love the Amplified, when I want to think some more
>>>>>>>>>about words! There are some very refreshing things about
>>>>>>>>>The Message Bible also. In some ways its language gets me a
>>>>>>>>>bit hot under the collar (perhaps it's a little over the top
>>>>>>>>>in some of its "American expression" for us Britts) but in
>>>>>>>>>others I find it refreshing. It seems to move on a pace
>>>>>>>>>that cannot be conveyed to me as I read the AV. I think you
>>>>>>>>>would like to read the Message and maybe you already have
>>>>>>>>>it. (The Message also uses the word "cry" in that passage,
>>>>>>>>>by the way, Sharon.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Finally, here's one further thought which I want to convey
>>>>>>>>>and it's meant by no means to take away any of the truth and
>>>>>>>>>reverence of the older versions of the Bible. My thinking
>>>>>>>>>goes something like this: "Well, Jesus expresses Himself to
>>>>>>>>>us in ways we can understand. He meets us where we are. He
>>>>>>>>>speaks words in the church which often are brought by
>>>>>>>>>younger, enthusiastic ones whose language understanding and
>>>>>>>>>presentation is more like the Message than the AV. So be
>>>>>>>>>it! God will still speak His truth into hungry hearts! God
>>>>>>>>>will still make His ways known! I personally don't want to
>>>>>>>>>examine every word etc for its accuracy either, because I'm
>>>>>>>>>not that kind of scholar, but I do want to be blessed inside
>>>>>>>>>as I read His word!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Anyway, I'm off my soap box now. Have been up many hours so
>>>>>>>>>guess it's brunchtime for me!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>>Carol
>>>>>>>>>[log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon Hooley"
>>>>>>>>><[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 7:27 AM
>>>>>>>>>Subject: Upgrading Versions of the bible?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Well Julie, of course the Bible doesn't change, but our
>>>>>>>>>>understanding of some things in the bible can change as we
>>>>>>>>>>grow in the Lord, and maybe it's possible to "upgrade" as
>>>>>>>>>>far as contemporary language is concerned, not to change
>>>>>>>>>>the meaning of what the Bible says, but to speak our
>>>>>>>>>>everyday language. Unfortunately, many of those who create
>>>>>>>>>>a new translation tend to try to make the bible say what
>>>>>>>>>>they want it to say, instead of what it's really
>>>>>>>>>>saying. Personally, I want my bible to speak the language
>>>>>>>>>>I use, not the ancient language of the KJV, as long as the
>>>>>>>>>>modern translation is accurate. From the bible, I wish I
>>>>>>>>>>could hear things like, "Serving God is so much fun! So
>>>>>>>>>>cool!" But I need to remind myself that, even if I read it
>>>>>>>>>>in an ancient language, it can be just as expressive as we
>>>>>>>>>>are today. For example, there's the story about when Jesus
>>>>>>>>>>approached a funeral procession. His hart went out to the
>>>>>>>>>>widow who had just lost her son. In the KJV, we read,
>>>>>>>>>>"Weep not." But in the NIV, (which may not be a perfectly
>>>>>>>>>>accurate translation), we hear Him simply saying, "Don't
>>>>>>>>>>cry." I would rather hear the latter, but maybe, just
>>>>>>>>>>maybe, Jesus is depicted just as strongly compassionate,
>>>>>>>>>>affectionate and comforting, in the KJV. What are your thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Sharon
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>>>>>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release
>>>>>>>>>Date: 7/4/2006
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>>>>>>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release
>>>>>>>>>Date: 7/4/2006
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>>>>>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>>>>>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>>>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>>>>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>>>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>>>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006
>>>>>
>>>>>John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006
>>
>>John
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 7/7/2006
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 7/7/2006
>
>
>--
>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/383 - Release Date: 7/7/2006
>
>
John
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