Oh, yeh, I know the difference. They exist in both my languages.
When looking for a strictly easy to read version, I might turn to
something like the NIRV (New International Reader's Version) rather
than a paraphrase.
I've heard differing opinions on one English version I like also: The
Good News Bible (Today's English Version). Some consider it a modern
translation while some people have denounced it as a paraphrase.
We used the Good News bible in my church's youth group 20 years ago
and some of my more conservative friends chewed me out because of this.
Cheers,
Doris At 02:08 PM 7/7/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>Dory, as long as you know the difference between a paraphrase and
>a translation, that's ok. A paraphrase is sort of like a commentary.
>
>earlier, Chipmunks, wrote:
>>Hi, John,
>>
>>i agree with you on the translation vs. paraphrase issue wholeheartedly.
>>
>>I knew someone who couldn't even differentiate between the
>>paraphrased Bible text in their version and the commentary notes
>>the author had added.
>>
>>I use a paraphrase occasionally myself for easy reading but always
>>together with at least one other traditional translation. I also
>>like to have a more modern translation along when I enjoy the KJV. <g>
>>
>>AS for the TNIV, I have a copy flying around here somewhere but I
>>have not studied it enough to form any opinion on it. I know that
>>the TNIV uses inclusive language. this by itself would not be
>>enough for me to reject a translation as I think this is something
>>reflecting changes in language usage and allso the audience and
>>their culture it addresses rather than a theological question. I am
>>not sure I understand the reference to "neutering God" as regards
>>to the TNIB. The NRSV, which is the translation I prefer to use,
>>does use some inclusive language as it renders the more traditional
>>"Brethren" as "Brothers and Sisters," for example but from the way
>>I read it, it takes away nothing from God.
>>
>>I had forgotten you were on this list also, John. It's nice to see
>>familiar names. :-)
>>
>>Take care ...
>>
>>Doris
>>
>>
>>
>>At 06:55 AM 7/7/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>>>John,
>>>I agree with you here. I get so frustrated when people bring the
>>>Living Bible to bible study and think that they are handling a
>>>translation, or worse yet, think that their's no big deal in using
>>>it for study. You can't do serious study on someone else's
>>>opinions of what the word says! By the way, while I like the NIV,
>>>I understand that the New American Standard supposedly is a more
>>>accurate translation and I'm not crazy at all about the TNIV,
>>>which has attempted to neuter God. That is going too far for me, for sure.
>>>Kathy
>>>
>>>
>>>At 05:05 PM 7/6/2006, you wrote:
>>>>Dory, I am not a King James only but call myself a King James
>>>>mainly. The problem that I have with modern translations is that
>>>>many people do not differentiate between a translation and a
>>>>paraphrase. When getting into a paraphrase, you are getting
>>>>somebody's opinion and not a good translation of the
>>>>languages. Although I don't think the KJV is inspired, the King
>>>>James only crowd makes some good points in favor of the KJV.
>>>>
>>>>earlier, Chipmunks, wrote:
>>>>>Oh, I have known and used Theophilos for several years and
>>>>>appreciate its accessibility.
>>>>>
>>>>>i just mentioned E-Sword because it comes with several free
>>>>>modern Bible Translations .
>>>>>
>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>>Doris
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>At 09:39 AM 7/6/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Doris,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I dont' know much about e-sward, but i use Theophilos. The KJV
>>>>>>and some older translations are free, and then you can purchase
>>>>>>packages to get newer translations as well as Bible comentaries
>>>>>>and dictionaries. I think this program has been mentioned on
>>>>>>the list before, but it's good. The site is
>>>>>>http://www.theophilos.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>JulieMelton
>>>>>>visit me at
>>>>>>www.heart-and-music.com
>>>>>>Keep smiling!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>From: Chipmunks <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>Reply-To: The Electronic Church <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: READING AND RESPONDING TO DIFFERENT TRANSLATIONS
>>>>>>>OF THE BIBLE
>>>>>>>Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:02:23 +0200
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I take it the AV is the equivalent of the KJV? Over the years
>>>>>>>since becoming a Christian, I have encountered many
>>>>>>>individuals who preferred the KJV bible and several who
>>>>>>>actually think it to be the only inspired bible version. My
>>>>>>>husband and I once even encountered a Bible college who had
>>>>>>>"Sole Scriptua, sole KJV" as the motto they wentby.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Being a non-native speaker of English originally, I grew up
>>>>>>>without any tradition of any particular Bible version. I
>>>>>>>cannot subscribbe to any doctrine of the KJV being the only
>>>>>>>inspired bible translation for the simple fact that there are
>>>>>>>hundreds of bible translations in other languages besides
>>>>>>>English and I think they are as valid as any English
>>>>>>>translation and this very fact already prooves to methat there
>>>>>>>cannot be just one legitimate Bible version or translation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>After devouring a good part of the Old Testament of a German
>>>>>>>bible as a second grader before becoming bored with the
>>>>>>>repitition of Chronicles after The Books of Samuel and Kings,
>>>>>>>my first encounter with the Bible as a young adult was
>>>>>>>actually with the KJV. I had heard that the KJV used language
>>>>>>>very similar to Shakespearean English, which I loved,and i
>>>>>>>originally set out to read the bible as literature for the
>>>>>>>beauty of its language. I first met the Messiah in passages
>>>>>>>from Psalms and the Prophets and in KJV English.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>When I started reading for meaning and content, I found the
>>>>>>>KJV fairly archaic and hard to understand.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I started reading more modern translations. I have always
>>>>>>>enjoyed working with different translations and comparing
>>>>>>>them. I find this very enriching and the next best thing to
>>>>>>>being able to read the bible in the original Greek and Hebrew.
>>>>>>>the church I attended as a young Christian encouraged the use
>>>>>>>of multiple bible translations and I much enjoyed our weekly
>>>>>>>bible studies where people brought their preferred trnaslation
>>>>>>>and we took turns reading passages. It was enriching to
>>>>>>>compare versions at times.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I did over time adopt a translation that I used the most and
>>>>>>>as Carol said, when I remember verses or passages, the wording
>>>>>>>is that of my preferred translation usually, but I maintain my
>>>>>>>interest and enjoyment of multiple translations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>When discussing the validity of the use of modern translations
>>>>>>>in contemporary English over the traditional translation of
>>>>>>>the KJV, i think it is important to remember that the
>>>>>>>Scriptures in the original languages, especially the New
>>>>>>>Testament, were not written in any one particular literary
>>>>>>>style. the old Testament is a library of many different styles
>>>>>>>of literature, ranging from the beautiful poetry of the
>>>>>>>PPsalms in the Jewish Hymanal to the historical accounts of
>>>>>>>the Jewish Scriptures. The New Testament was not written in
>>>>>>>Classical lliterary Greek but in the colloquial Greek that
>>>>>>>Jesus contemporaries spoke, many of which were non-native
>>>>>>>speakers of Greek, as were the majority of the New Testament authors.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I find the variety of translations refreshing and enriching
>>>>>>>and think it is most important to prayerfully consider which
>>>>>>>translation works best for the individual to receive God's work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Anyone intersted in studying multiple tramslations of the
>>>>>>>Bible might want to have a look at the free E-Sword Bible
>>>>>>>package available from
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>www.e-sword.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>While not that easily accessible, the latest version of
>>>>>>>E-Sword works well enough with speech to permit reading of
>>>>>>>different Bible versions. Unfortuantely I find that the notes
>>>>>>>and commentaries remain inaccessible to me. If anyone on here
>>>>>>>has found jaws scripts for E-Sword or come up with a way to
>>>>>>>access all the material and resources in the program, i would
>>>>>>>be grateful for a pointer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Doris
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>At 09:54 AM 7/6/2006 +0100, you wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hi there Sharon, and all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Hmmm! I have been thinking over the past hour or two, since
>>>>>>>>seeing your message . . .. (I've taken the liberty of
>>>>>>>>changing the subject header here because some may find that
>>>>>>>>"upgrading" thought a little tackey.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>First, in full defence of the AV, I am very prepared to agree
>>>>>>>>its outstanding accuracy and truthfulness and the need for
>>>>>>>>this in the Church. I know and respect those who feel so
>>>>>>>>passionately they wouldn't use anything else! (I even know
>>>>>>>>some on this list and I reckon they won't keep quiet for too long <SMILE>!)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>For me, I grew up with the AV and learned and got to know its
>>>>>>>>wording so well that, if I am imprisoned or without a Bible
>>>>>>>>in later years, I know these are the words I will be crying
>>>>>>>>out! Therefore, there is something very special for me about the AV.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>However, alongside this, I do find its archaic, old English
>>>>>>>>language both a bit sweet and treakley and certainly it's
>>>>>>>>something which I do not fully understand or identify
>>>>>>>>with. For example, I even find 1 Corinthians 13 causes me to
>>>>>>>>feel I'm being called (though not drawn) to the litergy of
>>>>>>>>the church and not the real meaning of the passage on
>>>>>>>>occasions, especially when this is delivered in a large
>>>>>>>>church with a lot of echo, and for me there are far better,
>>>>>>>>more modern, translations of that lovely passage. It is for
>>>>>>>>this reason that I still read the old but also more modern
>>>>>>>>translations and allow God to speak with me and refresh me as I do so!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Your example in Luke 7 is so right, to my mind. "Cry" and
>>>>>>>>"weep" are words I understand and appreciate, and even think
>>>>>>>>there is a difference between them, and that comment is based
>>>>>>>>on my own experience. Why say something more when these words are adequate!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I don't want to say too much about individual versions, but I
>>>>>>>>do keep a copy of the NIV around on my BrailleNote because it
>>>>>>>>sort of is the general version I can keep with me. I love,
>>>>>>>>love the Amplified, when I want to think some more about
>>>>>>>>words! There are some very refreshing things about The
>>>>>>>>Message Bible also. In some ways its language gets me a bit
>>>>>>>>hot under the collar (perhaps it's a little over the top in
>>>>>>>>some of its "American expression" for us Britts) but in
>>>>>>>>others I find it refreshing. It seems to move on a pace that
>>>>>>>>cannot be conveyed to me as I read the AV. I think you would
>>>>>>>>like to read the Message and maybe you already have it. (The
>>>>>>>>Message also uses the word "cry" in that passage, by the way, Sharon.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Finally, here's one further thought which I want to convey
>>>>>>>>and it's meant by no means to take away any of the truth and
>>>>>>>>reverence of the older versions of the Bible. My thinking
>>>>>>>>goes something like this: "Well, Jesus expresses Himself to
>>>>>>>>us in ways we can understand. He meets us where we are. He
>>>>>>>>speaks words in the church which often are brought by
>>>>>>>>younger, enthusiastic ones whose language understanding and
>>>>>>>>presentation is more like the Message than the AV. So be
>>>>>>>>it! God will still speak His truth into hungry hearts! God
>>>>>>>>will still make His ways known! I personally don't want to
>>>>>>>>examine every word etc for its accuracy either, because I'm
>>>>>>>>not that kind of scholar, but I do want to be blessed inside
>>>>>>>>as I read His word!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Anyway, I'm off my soap box now. Have been up many hours so
>>>>>>>>guess it's brunchtime for me!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>Carol
>>>>>>>>[log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon Hooley"
>>>>>>>><[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 7:27 AM
>>>>>>>>Subject: Upgrading Versions of the bible?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Well Julie, of course the Bible doesn't change, but our
>>>>>>>>>understanding of some things in the bible can change as we
>>>>>>>>>grow in the Lord, and maybe it's possible to "upgrade" as
>>>>>>>>>far as contemporary language is concerned, not to change the
>>>>>>>>>meaning of what the Bible says, but to speak our everyday
>>>>>>>>>language. Unfortunately, many of those who create a new
>>>>>>>>>translation tend to try to make the bible say what they want
>>>>>>>>>it to say, instead of what it's really saying. Personally,
>>>>>>>>>I want my bible to speak the language I use, not the ancient
>>>>>>>>>language of the KJV, as long as the modern translation is
>>>>>>>>>accurate. From the bible, I wish I could hear things like,
>>>>>>>>>"Serving God is so much fun! So cool!" But I need to
>>>>>>>>>remind myself that, even if I read it in an ancient
>>>>>>>>>language, it can be just as expressive as we are today. For
>>>>>>>>>example, there's the story about when Jesus approached a
>>>>>>>>>funeral procession. His hart went out to the widow who had
>>>>>>>>>just lost her son. In the KJV, we read, "Weep not." But in
>>>>>>>>>the NIV, (which may not be a perfectly accurate
>>>>>>>>>translation), we hear Him simply saying, "Don't cry." I
>>>>>>>>>would rather hear the latter, but maybe, just maybe, Jesus
>>>>>>>>>is depicted just as strongly compassionate, affectionate and
>>>>>>>>>comforting, in the KJV. What are your thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Sharon
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>--
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>>>>>>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>>>>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>>>>>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>--
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>>>>>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--
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>>>>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--
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>>>>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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>>>>
>>>>John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>John
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
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