Dory, as long as you know the difference between a paraphrase and
a translation, that's ok. A paraphrase is sort of like a commentary.
earlier, Chipmunks, wrote:
>Hi, John,
>
>i agree with you on the translation vs. paraphrase issue wholeheartedly.
>
>I knew someone who couldn't even differentiate between the
>paraphrased Bible text in their version and the commentary notes
>the author had added.
>
>I use a paraphrase occasionally myself for easy reading but always
>together with at least one other traditional translation. I also
>like to have a more modern translation along when I enjoy the KJV. <g>
>
>AS for the TNIV, I have a copy flying around here somewhere but I
>have not studied it enough to form any opinion on it. I know that
>the TNIV uses inclusive language. this by itself would not be enough
>for me to reject a translation as I think this is something
>reflecting changes in language usage and allso the audience and
>their culture it addresses rather than a theological question. I am
>not sure I understand the reference to "neutering God" as regards to
>the TNIB. The NRSV, which is the translation I prefer to use, does
>use some inclusive language as it renders the more traditional
>"Brethren" as "Brothers and Sisters," for example but from the way I
>read it, it takes away nothing from God.
>
>I had forgotten you were on this list also, John. It's nice to see
>familiar names. :-)
>
>Take care ...
>
>Doris
>
>
>
>At 06:55 AM 7/7/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>
>>John,
>>I agree with you here. I get so frustrated when people bring the
>>Living Bible to bible study and think that they are handling a
>>translation, or worse yet, think that their's no big deal in using
>>it for study. You can't do serious study on someone else's
>>opinions of what the word says! By the way, while I like the NIV,
>>I understand that the New American Standard supposedly is a more
>>accurate translation and I'm not crazy at all about the TNIV, which
>>has attempted to neuter God. That is going too far for me, for sure.
>>Kathy
>>
>>
>>At 05:05 PM 7/6/2006, you wrote:
>>>Dory, I am not a King James only but call myself a King James
>>>mainly. The problem that I have with modern translations is that
>>>many people do not differentiate between a translation and a
>>>paraphrase. When getting into a paraphrase, you are getting
>>>somebody's opinion and not a good translation of the
>>>languages. Although I don't think the KJV is inspired, the King
>>>James only crowd makes some good points in favor of the KJV.
>>>
>>>earlier, Chipmunks, wrote:
>>>>Oh, I have known and used Theophilos for several years and
>>>>appreciate its accessibility.
>>>>
>>>>i just mentioned E-Sword because it comes with several free
>>>>modern Bible Translations .
>>>>
>>>>Cheers,
>>>>
>>>>Doris
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>At 09:39 AM 7/6/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Doris,
>>>>>
>>>>>I dont' know much about e-sward, but i use Theophilos. The KJV
>>>>>and some older translations are free, and then you can purchase
>>>>>packages to get newer translations as well as Bible comentaries
>>>>>and dictionaries. I think this program has been mentioned on
>>>>>the list before, but it's good. The site is
>>>>>http://www.theophilos.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>JulieMelton
>>>>>visit me at
>>>>>www.heart-and-music.com
>>>>>Keep smiling!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>From: Chipmunks <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>Reply-To: The Electronic Church <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>Subject: Re: READING AND RESPONDING TO DIFFERENT TRANSLATIONS
>>>>>>OF THE BIBLE
>>>>>>Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 12:02:23 +0200
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I take it the AV is the equivalent of the KJV? Over the years
>>>>>>since becoming a Christian, I have encountered many individuals
>>>>>>who preferred the KJV bible and several who actually think it
>>>>>>to be the only inspired bible version. My husband and I once
>>>>>>even encountered a Bible college who had "Sole Scriptua, sole
>>>>>>KJV" as the motto they wentby.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Being a non-native speaker of English originally, I grew up
>>>>>>without any tradition of any particular Bible version. I cannot
>>>>>>subscribbe to any doctrine of the KJV being the only inspired
>>>>>>bible translation for the simple fact that there are hundreds
>>>>>>of bible translations in other languages besides English and I
>>>>>>think they are as valid as any English translation and this
>>>>>>very fact already prooves to methat there cannot be just one
>>>>>>legitimate Bible version or translation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>After devouring a good part of the Old Testament of a German
>>>>>>bible as a second grader before becoming bored with the
>>>>>>repitition of Chronicles after The Books of Samuel and Kings,
>>>>>>my first encounter with the Bible as a young adult was actually
>>>>>>with the KJV. I had heard that the KJV used language very
>>>>>>similar to Shakespearean English, which I loved,and i
>>>>>>originally set out to read the bible as literature for the
>>>>>>beauty of its language. I first met the Messiah in passages
>>>>>>from Psalms and the Prophets and in KJV English.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>When I started reading for meaning and content, I found the KJV
>>>>>>fairly archaic and hard to understand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I started reading more modern translations. I have always
>>>>>>enjoyed working with different translations and comparing them.
>>>>>>I find this very enriching and the next best thing to being
>>>>>>able to read the bible in the original Greek and Hebrew. the
>>>>>>church I attended as a young Christian encouraged the use of
>>>>>>multiple bible translations and I much enjoyed our weekly bible
>>>>>>studies where people brought their preferred trnaslation and we
>>>>>>took turns reading passages. It was enriching to compare versions at times.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I did over time adopt a translation that I used the most and as
>>>>>>Carol said, when I remember verses or passages, the wording is
>>>>>>that of my preferred translation usually, but I maintain my
>>>>>>interest and enjoyment of multiple translations.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>When discussing the validity of the use of modern translations
>>>>>>in contemporary English over the traditional translation of the
>>>>>>KJV, i think it is important to remember that the Scriptures in
>>>>>>the original languages, especially the New Testament, were not
>>>>>>written in any one particular literary style. the old Testament
>>>>>>is a library of many different styles of literature, ranging
>>>>>>from the beautiful poetry of the PPsalms in the Jewish Hymanal
>>>>>>to the historical accounts of the Jewish Scriptures. The New
>>>>>>Testament was not written in Classical lliterary Greek but in
>>>>>>the colloquial Greek that Jesus contemporaries spoke, many of
>>>>>>which were non-native speakers of Greek, as were the majority
>>>>>>of the New Testament authors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I find the variety of translations refreshing and enriching and
>>>>>>think it is most important to prayerfully consider which
>>>>>>translation works best for the individual to receive God's work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Anyone intersted in studying multiple tramslations of the Bible
>>>>>>might want to have a look at the free E-Sword Bible package available from
>>>>>>
>>>>>>www.e-sword.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>While not that easily accessible, the latest version of E-Sword
>>>>>>works well enough with speech to permit reading of different
>>>>>>Bible versions. Unfortuantely I find that the notes and
>>>>>>commentaries remain inaccessible to me. If anyone on here has
>>>>>>found jaws scripts for E-Sword or come up with a way to access
>>>>>>all the material and resources in the program, i would be
>>>>>>grateful for a pointer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Doris
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>At 09:54 AM 7/6/2006 +0100, you wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hi there Sharon, and all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hmmm! I have been thinking over the past hour or two, since
>>>>>>>seeing your message . . .. (I've taken the liberty of
>>>>>>>changing the subject header here because some may find that
>>>>>>>"upgrading" thought a little tackey.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>First, in full defence of the AV, I am very prepared to agree
>>>>>>>its outstanding accuracy and truthfulness and the need for
>>>>>>>this in the Church. I know and respect those who feel so
>>>>>>>passionately they wouldn't use anything else! (I even know
>>>>>>>some on this list and I reckon they won't keep quiet for too long <SMILE>!)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>For me, I grew up with the AV and learned and got to know its
>>>>>>>wording so well that, if I am imprisoned or without a Bible in
>>>>>>>later years, I know these are the words I will be crying
>>>>>>>out! Therefore, there is something very special for me about the AV.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>However, alongside this, I do find its archaic, old English
>>>>>>>language both a bit sweet and treakley and certainly it's
>>>>>>>something which I do not fully understand or identify
>>>>>>>with. For example, I even find 1 Corinthians 13 causes me to
>>>>>>>feel I'm being called (though not drawn) to the litergy of the
>>>>>>>church and not the real meaning of the passage on occasions,
>>>>>>>especially when this is delivered in a large church with a lot
>>>>>>>of echo, and for me there are far better, more modern,
>>>>>>>translations of that lovely passage. It is for this reason
>>>>>>>that I still read the old but also more modern translations
>>>>>>>and allow God to speak with me and refresh me as I do so!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Your example in Luke 7 is so right, to my mind. "Cry" and
>>>>>>>"weep" are words I understand and appreciate, and even think
>>>>>>>there is a difference between them, and that comment is based
>>>>>>>on my own experience. Why say something more when these words are adequate!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I don't want to say too much about individual versions, but I
>>>>>>>do keep a copy of the NIV around on my BrailleNote because it
>>>>>>>sort of is the general version I can keep with me. I love,
>>>>>>>love the Amplified, when I want to think some more about
>>>>>>>words! There are some very refreshing things about The
>>>>>>>Message Bible also. In some ways its language gets me a bit
>>>>>>>hot under the collar (perhaps it's a little over the top in
>>>>>>>some of its "American expression" for us Britts) but in others
>>>>>>>I find it refreshing. It seems to move on a pace that cannot
>>>>>>>be conveyed to me as I read the AV. I think you would like to
>>>>>>>read the Message and maybe you already have it. (The Message
>>>>>>>also uses the word "cry" in that passage, by the way, Sharon.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Finally, here's one further thought which I want to convey and
>>>>>>>it's meant by no means to take away any of the truth and
>>>>>>>reverence of the older versions of the Bible. My thinking
>>>>>>>goes something like this: "Well, Jesus expresses Himself to
>>>>>>>us in ways we can understand. He meets us where we are. He
>>>>>>>speaks words in the church which often are brought by younger,
>>>>>>>enthusiastic ones whose language understanding and
>>>>>>>presentation is more like the Message than the AV. So be
>>>>>>>it! God will still speak His truth into hungry hearts! God
>>>>>>>will still make His ways known! I personally don't want to
>>>>>>>examine every word etc for its accuracy either, because I'm
>>>>>>>not that kind of scholar, but I do want to be blessed inside
>>>>>>>as I read His word!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Anyway, I'm off my soap box now. Have been up many hours so
>>>>>>>guess it's brunchtime for me!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>Carol
>>>>>>>[log in to unmask]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Sharon Hooley"
>>>>>>><[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 7:27 AM
>>>>>>>Subject: Upgrading Versions of the bible?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Well Julie, of course the Bible doesn't change, but our
>>>>>>>>understanding of some things in the bible can change as we
>>>>>>>>grow in the Lord, and maybe it's possible to "upgrade" as far
>>>>>>>>as contemporary language is concerned, not to change the
>>>>>>>>meaning of what the Bible says, but to speak our everyday
>>>>>>>>language. Unfortunately, many of those who create a new
>>>>>>>>translation tend to try to make the bible say what they want
>>>>>>>>it to say, instead of what it's really saying. Personally, I
>>>>>>>>want my bible to speak the language I use, not the ancient
>>>>>>>>language of the KJV, as long as the modern translation is
>>>>>>>>accurate. From the bible, I wish I could hear things like,
>>>>>>>>"Serving God is so much fun! So cool!" But I need to remind
>>>>>>>>myself that, even if I read it in an ancient language, it can
>>>>>>>>be just as expressive as we are today. For example, there's
>>>>>>>>the story about when Jesus approached a funeral procession.
>>>>>>>>His hart went out to the widow who had just lost her son. In
>>>>>>>>the KJV, we read, "Weep not." But in the NIV, (which may not
>>>>>>>>be a perfectly accurate translation), we hear Him simply
>>>>>>>>saying, "Don't cry." I would rather hear the latter, but
>>>>>>>>maybe, just maybe, Jesus is depicted just as strongly
>>>>>>>>compassionate, affectionate and comforting, in the KJV. What are your thoughts?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Sharon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>>>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>>>>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>>>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>>>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>>>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006
>>>
>>>John
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006
>
>
>--
>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.9/382 - Release Date: 7/4/2006
>
>
John
|
