Julie,
         Thank you for your understanding and kind words.  I appreciate them.

         I just have one more point to make on this subject that kind 
of connects with what you said, and then I'll go away and leave it to 
rest.  My thoughts are these:  in 1933, when Hitler came to power, he 
went to the churches and capitolized on their sense of national pride 
to accomplish so much so quickly.  Of course, we can argue that they 
weren't the true church, but they were the main church and those who 
were outspoken against the anti-semetic position that the main church 
and Hitler were taking, such as Bonhoeffer, were expelled from the 
church altogether.  Bonhoeffer eventually wrote the book, "The Cost 
of Discipleship" in response to what he was 
experiencing.  Interesting, the church remembers Bonhoeffer today as 
a marter for his faith, but we don't remember the German pastors with 
their national pride.  At least I don't.
         I love my country, but if I am to die for something, let it 
be for Christ.
Kathy


At 11:27 AM 4/25/2006, you wrote:
>Kathy,
>
>You said this very well.  Even though we love our country, our first 
>devotion has to be to Christ.  Not only that, but worship of God is 
>the purpose of the church, even when it means standing against 
>immorality in our country or any other.
>
>I will pray God's wisdom for you in resolving this contraversy.  I 
>will also pray for unity and that all involved will focus on what's important.
>
>
>
>JulieMelton
>visit me at
>www.heart-and-music.com
>Keep smiling!
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: Kathy Du Bois <[log in to unmask]>
>>Reply-To: The Electronic Church <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Church controversy again
>>Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 16:19:56 -0400
>>
>>Hi Guys,
>>         Well, it looks like Greg and I might be in a bit of the 
>> thick of it again.  Unfortunately, it isn't because of doctrine or 
>> anything like that, it's over the position of the flags in our 
>> church.  It would be interesting to see if you guys have anything 
>> to say about it.
>>         The Bangor area is pretty military.  Our airport doubles 
>> as a civilian airport and a military base.  We have the longest 
>> runway in  the country, so I'm told because of this union.  Many 
>> of the troops who are either flying overseas, or returning home, 
>> go through Bangor Maine.  We have a group of people, in the area, 
>> who have established themselves as troop greeters to give them a 
>> warm American send off or welcome no matter what time the military 
>> plane arrives, day or night.  A few of the members of our 
>> congregation participate in this.  Hopefully, this helps to set 
>> the stage for what blew up today.
>>           The church has always had two flags in the front of the 
>> sanctuary.  One is the American flag and one is the Christian 
>> flag.  In flag protocol, established by the military in the early 
>> 1800s, the flag of the highest honor is supposed to be positioned 
>> to the right of the speaker.  In a church, this would mean to the 
>> right of the pastor.  Well, this protocol was established before 
>> the Christian flag was even created so it doesn't mention the 
>> Christian flag or how to deal with it at all.  Some pastors have 
>> opted to just remove the flags from the sanctuary altogether to 
>> stop the bickering, but our congregation wants the flags to 
>> remain.  This leaves us with an interesting dilemma, which 
>> flag  should receive top honors in a church?
>>         First of all, I will say very emphatically that Greg and I 
>> are both very patriotic.  We love our country and we are grateful 
>> to live here.  We have no interest in protesting the war, or the 
>> military and we never have, but, we believe that Christ should 
>> receive top honor in His sanctuary.  If you go to any of the 
>> offices of government, the court house, the town office, or any 
>> military establishment, such as the V.F.W. or the American Legion, 
>> you won't even see a Christian flag on display  and that is 
>> okay.  We may say that we are one nation under God, but we aren't 
>> and we aren't insisting that the Christian flag appear anywhere 
>> outside the church.  However, as much as I love this country, my 
>> first allegiance is to Christ.  I will protest when my country 
>> becomes immoral, but I will cling to the cross of Christ no matter 
>> who is in earthly power.
>>         Well, at our business meeting, it came up today.  The 
>> veterans among us are all protesting, some threatening to never 
>> come to our church again, because the Christian flag is in the 
>> honored position.  I have to say that most of the congregation 
>> voted in support of Greg, putting Christ first.
>>Greg had even talked to an army chaplain on the matter before today 
>>and the chaplain agrees with Greg, but never the less, it's a small 
>>town, so the winds of trouble are blowing again.
>>         When I arrived home, I looked up the first commandment in 
>> Exodus 20:3-6.
>>
>>         You shall have no other gods before me.
>>You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in 
>>heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.
>>You shall not bow down to them or worship them;
>>For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children 
>>for the sins of the fathers to the third and fourth generations of 
>>those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of 
>>those who love me and keep my commandments.
>>
>>I don't know, perhaps I am making too much of the connection, but I 
>>couldn't help but wonder if part of the reason that our society is 
>>so messed up today is because other things, such as flags, have 
>>replaced our love of the one true God in first place in our lives.
>>
>>         Unfortunately, the veterans, in all this, won't hear our 
>> point because of their emotional commitment to the flag.  They see 
>> us in the same way as they saw the Viet Nam protestors of the 60s 
>> and, to be truthful, it is hard for us to respect their commitment 
>> to Christ that they would be willing to break up community over 
>> this.  We have done services in the past honoring the veterans, 
>> but that doesn't seem to be remembered now.
>>Just pray for us Guys.  I'd love to hear your thoughts.
>>Kathy