Kathy,

I know you guys do not worship either flag, it 
was more for commenting on both sides of the 
issue. I agree  neither representation ought be 
there if it causes any brother to stumble, with 
Greg being the shepherd, it would be my opinion 
that decision is up to him. 
Somehow  denominational doctrines tend to put the 
sheep in the lead. Kind of like the tail wagging 
the dog isn't it? I feel it is up to the shepherd 
to lead the sheep, not the other way around. I 
understand your denominational position, that 
they can vote Greg off and etc. which to me is 
not right, it holds back a godly man doing what 
God is telling him to do for fear of what a 
congregation might think. That's my one cents 
worth. One cent you say? Yep, if I say my 2 
cents, that would mean I'm done babbling, and you 
know that never happens lol.

Brad


on 04:13 PM 4/23/2006, Kathy Du Bois said:

Hey Brad,
         I think that you probably already know 
this, but Greg and I aren't idolizing the 
Christian flag.  We wouldn't mind if they were 
both gone.  I know that there is a pledge to the 
bible and a pledge to the Christian flag, but I 
don't know either of them and I don't really care 
if I ever do. My kids know them.  They have to 
say them at their Christian school, but I don't 
know them.   The congregation has forced us to 
keep the flags in plain view, in the middle of 
worship, so that leaves us wanting to put the Christian flag first.
         I do understand, to a degree, why the 
veterans love the flag so much.  I can't imagine 
being fired upon and worrying about whether you 
are going to live or die.  As long as you could 
see that flag, you knew that there was hope for 
survival.  I have never had to face that 
circumstance, but I can appreciate it.   However, 
God still needs first place.
         You know, you were wondering if 
Christians  had as strong of a devotion for 
Christ and His word.  I don't think so.  It was 
in the concentration camp that Corey Tenboom 
realized just how precious even one gospel could 
be.  I don't think that we value Jesus' precious 
blood as we ought.  All we know is that it saved 
our hides from eternal damnation and that's good enough.  Very sad.
Kathy


At 04:48 PM 4/23/2006, you wrote:
Kathy,

The military folks are well trained, or 
brainwashed to a degree, on honoring the flag and 
nation and all of that. Wouldn't it be a real 
test to see if Christians felt the same way in 
varying circumstances? Oh, well, it seems you do 
have that very situation indeed. Hands down it is 
a Christian representation  which ought go before 
the American flag. However equally to the fact 
the American flag ought not serve as a idol or 
god, neither ought the Christian one, as it 
wasn't the Christian flag who is god. Your 
question of whether which ought hold higher honor 
in a church, a Christian flag or American one, is 
almost so obvious it is almost redundant. I 
understand your veterans, but they need to 
understand Christ died for all people, not just 
Americans. How then would putting the American 
flag first be any different than your country 
putting its own ideals birthed out of its 
citizens to take God off our money, pledges and 
courtrooms? The USA need to know its place in 
existence, and before Christ is not it. I love 
this country too, but we are a people many times 
grounded on false security and patriotic piniáta, 
a shell of patriotism filled with sweet gimme's 
and fail to see we do have faults and we are not 
superior in people, God created all equal, but not equal to God himself.

Brad



on 03:19 PM 4/23/2006, Kathy Du Bois said:

Hi Guys,
         Well, it looks like Greg and I might be 
in a bit of the thick of it 
again.  Unfortunately, it isn't because of 
doctrine or anything like that, it's over the 
position of the flags in our church.  It would be 
interesting to see if you guys have anything to say about it.
         The Bangor area is pretty military.  Our 
airport doubles as a civilian airport and a 
military base.  We have the longest runway 
in  the country, so I'm told because of this 
union.  Many of the troops who are either flying 
overseas, or returning home, go through Bangor 
Maine.  We have a group of people, in the area, 
who have established themselves as troop greeters 
to give them a warm American send off or welcome 
no matter what time the military plane arrives, 
day or night.  A few of the members of our 
congregation participate in this.  Hopefully, 
this helps to set the stage for what blew up today.
           The church has always had two flags in 
the front of the sanctuary.  One is the American 
flag and one is the Christian flag.  In flag 
protocol, established by the military in the 
early 1800s, the flag of the highest honor is 
supposed to be positioned to the right of the 
speaker.  In a church, this would mean to the 
right of the pastor.  Well, this protocol was 
established before the Christian flag was even 
created so it doesn't mention the Christian flag 
or how to deal with it at all.  Some pastors have 
opted to just remove the flags from the sanctuary 
altogether to stop the bickering, but our 
congregation wants the flags to remain.  This 
leaves us with an interesting dilemma, which 
flag  should receive top honors in a church?
         First of all, I will say very 
emphatically that Greg and I are both very 
patriotic.  We love our country and we are 
grateful to live here.  We have no interest in 
protesting the war, or the military and we never 
have, but, we believe that Christ should receive 
top honor in His sanctuary.  If you go to any of 
the offices of government, the court house, the 
town office, or any military establishment, such 
as the V.F.W. or the American Legion, you won't 
even see a Christian flag on display  and that is 
okay.  We may say that we are one nation under 
God, but we aren't and we aren't insisting that 
the Christian flag appear anywhere outside the 
church.  However, as much as I love this country, 
my first allegiance is to Christ.  I will protest 
when my country becomes immoral, but I will cling 
to the cross of Christ no matter who is in earthly power.
         Well, at our business meeting, it came 
up today.  The veterans among us are all 
protesting, some threatening to never come to our 
church again, because the Christian flag is in 
the honored position.  I have to say that most of 
the congregation voted in support of Greg, 
putting Christ first.  Greg had even talked to an 
army chaplain on the matter before today and the 
chaplain agrees with Greg, but never the less, 
it's a small town, so the winds of trouble are blowing again.
         When I arrived home, I looked up the 
first commandment in Exodus 20:3-6.

         You shall have no other gods before me.
You shall not make for yourself an idol in the 
form of anything in heaven above or on the earth 
beneath or in the waters below.
You shall not bow down to them or worship them;
For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, 
punishing the children for the sins of the 
fathers to the third and fourth generations of 
those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand 
generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

I don't know, perhaps I am making too much of the 
connection, but I couldn't help but wonder if 
part of the reason that our society is so messed 
up today is because other things, such as flags, 
have replaced our love of the one true God in first place in our lives.

         Unfortunately, the veterans, in all 
this, won't hear our point because of their 
emotional commitment to the flag.  They see us in 
the same way as they saw the Viet Nam protestors 
of the 60s and, to be truthful, it is hard for us 
to respect their commitment to Christ that they 
would be willing to break up community over 
this.  We have done services in the past honoring 
the veterans, but that doesn't seem to be remembered now.
Just pray for us Guys.  I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Kathy