You know what kathy,
People forget that the flags are only a symbol, and it's what's in the heart 
that matters, and our pledge to god and to  america is heart felt. I agree 
with you, get rid of them both.
Rhonda 2

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kathy Du Bois" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: Church controversy again


Hey Brad,
         I think that you probably already know
this, but Greg and I aren't idolizing the
Christian flag.  We wouldn't mind if they were
both gone.  I know that there is a pledge to the
bible and a pledge to the Christian flag, but I
don't know either of them and I don't really care
if I ever do. My kids know them.  They have to
say them at their Christian school, but I don't
know them.   The congregation has forced us to
keep the flags in plain view, in the middle of
worship, so that leaves us wanting to put the Christian flag first.
         I do understand, to a degree, why the
veterans love the flag so much.  I can't imagine
being fired upon and worrying about whether you
are going to live or die.  As long as you could
see that flag, you knew that there was hope for
survival.  I have never had to face that
circumstance, but I can appreciate it.   However, God still needs first 
place.
         You know, you were wondering if
Christians  had as strong of a devotion for
Christ and His word.  I don't think so.  It was
in the concentration camp that Corey Tenboom
realized just how precious even one gospel could
be.  I don't think that we value Jesus' precious
blood as we ought.  All we know is that it saved
our hides from eternal damnation and that's good enough.  Very sad.
Kathy


At 04:48 PM 4/23/2006, you wrote:
>Kathy,
>
>The military folks are well trained, or brainwashed to a degree, on 
>honoring the flag and nation and all of that. Wouldn't it be a real test to 
>see if Christians felt the same way in varying circumstances? Oh, well, it 
>seems you do have that very situation indeed. Hands down it is a Christian 
>representation  which ought go before the American flag. However equally to 
>the fact the American flag ought not serve as a idol or god, neither ought 
>the Christian one, as it wasn't the Christian flag who is god. Your 
>question of whether which ought hold higher honor in a church, a Christian 
>flag or American one, is almost so obvious it is almost redundant. I 
>understand your veterans, but they need to understand Christ died for all 
>people, not just Americans. How then would putting the American flag first 
>be any different than your country putting its own ideals birthed out of 
>its citizens to take God off our money, pledges and courtrooms? The USA 
>need to know its place in existence, and before Christ is not it. I love 
>this country too, but we are a people many times grounded on false security 
>and patriotic piniáta, a shell of patriotism filled with sweet gimme's and 
>fail to see we do have faults and we are not superior in people, God 
>created all equal, but not equal to God himself.
>
>Brad
>
>
>
>on 03:19 PM 4/23/2006, Kathy Du Bois said:
>
>Hi Guys,
>         Well, it looks like Greg and I might be in a bit of the thick of 
> it again.  Unfortunately, it isn't because of doctrine or anything like 
> that, it's over the position of the flags in our church.  It would be 
> interesting to see if you guys have anything to say about it.
>         The Bangor area is pretty military.  Our airport doubles as a 
> civilian airport and a military base.  We have the longest runway in  the 
> country, so I'm told because of this union.  Many of the troops who are 
> either flying overseas, or returning home, go through Bangor Maine.  We 
> have a group of people, in the area, who have established themselves as 
> troop greeters to give them a warm American send off or welcome no matter 
> what time the military plane arrives, day or night.  A few of the members 
> of our congregation participate in this.  Hopefully, this helps to set the 
> stage for what blew up today.
>           The church has always had two flags in the front of the 
> sanctuary.  One is the American flag and one is the Christian flag.  In 
> flag protocol, established by the military in the early 1800s, the flag of 
> the highest honor is supposed to be positioned to the right of the 
> speaker.  In a church, this would mean to the right of the pastor.  Well, 
> this protocol was established before the Christian flag was even created 
> so it doesn't mention the Christian flag or how to deal with it at all. 
> Some pastors have opted to just remove the flags from the sanctuary 
> altogether to stop the bickering, but our congregation wants the flags to 
> remain.  This leaves us with an interesting dilemma, which flag  should 
> receive top honors in a church?
>         First of all, I will say very emphatically that Greg and I are 
> both very patriotic.  We love our country and we are grateful to live 
> here.  We have no interest in protesting the war, or the military and we 
> never have, but, we believe that Christ should receive top honor in His 
> sanctuary.  If you go to any of the offices of government, the court 
> house, the town office, or any military establishment, such as the V.F.W. 
> or the American Legion, you won't even see a Christian flag on display 
> and that is okay.  We may say that we are one nation under God, but we 
> aren't and we aren't insisting that the Christian flag appear anywhere 
> outside the church.  However, as much as I love this country, my first 
> allegiance is to Christ.  I will protest when my country becomes immoral, 
> but I will cling to the cross of Christ no matter who is in earthly power.
>         Well, at our business meeting, it came up today.  The veterans 
> among us are all protesting, some threatening to never come to our church 
> again, because the Christian flag is in the honored position.  I have to 
> say that most of the congregation voted in support of Greg, putting Christ 
> first.  Greg had even talked to an army chaplain on the matter before 
> today and the chaplain agrees with Greg, but never the less, it's a small 
> town, so the winds of trouble are blowing again.
>         When I arrived home, I looked up the first commandment in Exodus 
> 20:3-6.
>
>         You shall have no other gods before me.
>You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven 
>above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.
>You shall not bow down to them or worship them;
>For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the 
>sins of the fathers to the third and fourth generations of those who hate 
>me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and 
>keep my commandments.
>
>I don't know, perhaps I am making too much of the connection, but I 
>couldn't help but wonder if part of the reason that our society is so 
>messed up today is because other things, such as flags, have replaced our 
>love of the one true God in first place in our lives.
>
>         Unfortunately, the veterans, in all this, won't hear our point 
> because of their emotional commitment to the flag.  They see us in the 
> same way as they saw the Viet Nam protestors of the 60s and, to be 
> truthful, it is hard for us to respect their commitment to Christ that 
> they would be willing to break up community over this.  We have done 
> services in the past honoring the veterans, but that doesn't seem to be 
> remembered now.
>Just pray for us Guys.  I'd love to hear your thoughts.
>Kathy


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