Angel,
It said the Judas was a thief and had the bag and bare what was put therein.
I can't feel sorry for Judas.
Andrew LLoyd Webber made him the hero of Jesus Christ super-star, a piece of 
blasphemy to be sure.
As you know, however, he wrote super-star with the express purpose of 
destroying Christianity.
Guess it didn't work.
Vinny
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 6:11 AM
Subject: Re: Poor Reuben


> This is why I have always felt sorry for Judas.  He was the one God had
> planned to betray Jesus.  He did this and wasn't so much different from 
> St.
> Peter really as they both betrayed a good friend.  I believe he felt after
> hearing of all the wondrous miracles Jesus had done concerning raising the
> dead and such that Jesus would come down from the cross and say "see you
> fools I am really the messiah after all."  Then Judas would come off the
> hero for betraying him and causing this big announcement.  When this 
> didn't
> happen he, realizing what he had done, went into a depression so deep he 
> saw
> no other way out save to hang himself.  After all, how could he face the
> other disciples and the world after what he had done.  HE serves as a 
> lesson
> to me, no matter how bad things get I must just wait till my change comes
> and I will be delivered out of whatever trouble in which I find myself.  I
> suppose there are other biblical characters from whom I can take this 
> lesson
> but I chose Judas because we betray Jesus many times in smaller ways and 
> he
> is always quick to forgive us for our transgressions.  I think if Judas 
> had
> lived he would have been one of the greatest Saints the world would have
> ever known.  He is also the only one of us all who never did have the
> opportunity to be redeemed.  This is so sad I think. ----- Original
> Message -----
> From: MV <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 7:36 AM
> Subject: Re: Poor Reuben
>
>
>> Kathy,
>> That's an interesting perspective. I guess Jacob, being the one to 
>> swindle
>> his brother's blessing or inheritance from his dad, must have thought the
>> mold is broke and so he could continue to break tradition and do as he
>> pleased or something? Hmmm. I guess we can look at this  whole thing of
> how
>> things came to be, in two perspectives or frameworks. That is the whole
>> lineage to Jesus via Leah not Rachel and for that matter God's hand in
>> man's history. Perhaps this  is against what some believe I don't know,
> and
>> perhaps it is a "What came first the chicken or the egg thing", but had
> God
>> purposed things to play out as they had, or had he continued to provide
>> opportunity for man to make the right choices and follow his leading each
>> time man came up short? I think of the time of the flood when he said he
>> was sorry he made man and then wiped the slate clean other than a few
> prime
>> specimens of humans to give it another whirl.  I mean was that planned? 
>> He
>> knows everything yes, but was that entire failure of man purposefully
>> planned by God? If prophecy showed Jesus would be handed over by a
> betrayer
>> for 30 pieces of gold, if Judah wasn't the one to have it in him to go
>> through with it, could one of the others been  presented with the
>> opportunity? Did God make this large design of swindled blessings,
>> betrayals, and shortcomings, and otherwise specifically choose the 
>> players
>> which we read about, or was it by their own choice that they chose the
>> roads they did and God used that? It kind of gets mind boggling if you
>> think of freewill he has given us, and yet he is in control of
>> everything.  Talk about questions we could ask God when we see him, but 
>> it
>> won't much matter then and we probably won't be in much shape to play the
>> reporter. It is interesting to look at characters from their own little
>> perspective in their part they play in history. I think I'll read that
>> account again Kathy and watch Reuben more closely. Thanks for the 
>> homework
>> assignment. lol.
>>
>> Brad
>>
>>
>> At 09:55 AM 1/23/2006 -0500, you wrote:
>> >Hey, while you guys are talking about the contributions of Judah and
>> >Leah, as I have been re-reading the same story, my heart has gone out
>> >to Reuben, for the first time.  When you think about it, that guy
>> >really got a raw deal.  I mean, think about it!  He was the first
>> >born.  He should have received the blessing, the birth right and up
>> >to half of the inheritance, according to Eastern custom.  But, Jacob
>> >didn't really like his mother so he ignored the boy.  I suppose that
>> >Reuben was a teenager when he decided to get it on with Bilhah, but
>> >chances are, that could have been an act of desperation, and
>> >frustration on his part.  It was kind of an, in your face, I'm a man
>> >now too, sort of thing.   Maybe a kind of "peeing on the father's
>> >turf," kind of challenge.  Chris went through that kind of an
>> >attitude a lot with us.  Not  toward me necessarily, I just mean that
>> >pack mentality attitude  of challenging the leader.  Some boys are
>> >just like that.   Then, as he gets older, he is the first brother to
>> >plead for Joseph's life and is secretly hoping to be able to sneak
>> >Joseph back to Jacob and come off as a hero so that, maybe Jacob will
>> >finally notice him and love him and recognize him as a person, but
>> >no, that is not to be.  Then, in the end, he gets nothing.  Jacob
>> >won't even acknowledge him on his death bed except to say, you
>> >screwed up and I'll never forgive you for it, even with one foot in
>> >the grave.  Reuben must have ended up a very bitter person.  He had
>> >to suck up to his little brother just  to stay alive.  Jacob was
>> >really a lousy parent, you know that?  Incredible.  I'll say one
>> >thing for the bible, it doesn't hide the truth!
>> >Kathy
>>
>> Brad
>>
>>    A lot of kneeling will keep you in good standing