Thanks Brad.
--
I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there is
IN GOD WE TRUST
Karen Carter '74
-KC- Ministries
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: MV <[log in to unmask]>
> That's true Karen.
>
> Brad
>
>
> At 07:46 AM 1/25/2006 +0000, you wrote:
> >It is sad that man has his hand in everything. Denominations are made of
> >man. God does not see them. He see's what is in the heart and our
> >relationship with him. When we get to Heaven we will see how much man
> >worried about things that God was not even concerned about.
> >
> >--
> >I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out
> >there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there is
> >
> >IN GOD WE TRUST
> >Karen Carter '74
> >-KC- Ministries
> >
> >
> > -------------- Original message ----------------------
> >From: MV <[log in to unmask]>
> > > Angel,
> > >
> > > I agree we are predestined to use our free will as we both made mention in
> > > an earlier post and I'm not even Catholic *big cheezy smile*, actually I'm
> > > probably a denominational mutt having grown up Lutheran, married in a
> > > Moravian church, served in a couple non-denominational churches, as
> > well as
> > > one inter-denominational church, recently came from a Baptist church and
> > > now attending an Assembly of God that seems to have balance apart from
> > > other O G churches I'll not make mention here. I've moved a few times
> > in my
> > > life which caused me to look about and search out churches making a
> > > difference and teaching the word. Anyway that wasn't my point of this
> > email
> > > I guess I just realized I guess I'm a freewiller as to grasping the Word
> > > for what it is and not so much a denominational marriage, which there is
> > > nothing wrong with that, I guess I just hadn't taken that road. Anyway My
> > > real point is, actually there are two, are...
> > >
> > > Point #1, you mentioned about we are predestined to freewill. But also
> > said...
> > >
> > > "This is why I have always felt sorry for Judas. He was the one God had
> > > planned to betray Jesus."
> > >
> > > Are you saying he was predestined but we're not? I think I had wondered
> > > this here before on list that if Judas hadn't chose to follow through,
> > > would someone else have stepped up? I'm thinking of another person at a
> > > critical time of history who had a choice. Ester when her uncle told her
> > > upon her unwillingness to plead to the king on behalf of the Jews...
> > > "For if you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance will arise
> > > for the Jews from another place and you and your father's house will
> > > perish. And who knows whether you have not attained royalty for such a
> > time
> > > as this?"-- Ester 4:14
> > >
> > > So it appears as Ester had a choice and God would see to it this thing
> > > would be accomplished one way or the other. Such could also be said for
> > > Judas I wonder.
> > >
> > > Point #2 is I always had questioned whether or not Judas was actually a
> > > gonner spiritually. I mean it seemed unfair, especially if he was somehow
> > > destined to be the trigger man of Christ's crucifixion. If you look he
> > felt
> > > remorse, gave the 30 pieces of silver back and guilt took over so much so
> > > he hung himself. I had, in my thoughts, questioned preachers when they
> > > mentioned Judas is in hell for his betrayal. To me it seemed he must have
> > > had a first rate relationship with Christ to be among the twelve, and
> > with
> > > all who were after Christ for healing folks right under their noses, on
> > the
> > > Sabbath yet, they had good reason to go after him without a betray or so
> > > that will be another question for me to wonder. However, after reading and
> > > looking up some definitions of the Scripture in Strong's Greek/Hebrew, I
> > > see that Judas indeed, by Jesus' words is in fact a gonner. Jesus said...
> > >
> > > "While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have
> > > given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of
> > > perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled." --John 17:12
> > >
> > > Looking up the word parish in the original it is...
> > >
> > > NT:622 apollumi (ap-ol'-loo-mee); from NT:575 and the base of NT:3639;
> > > to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or
> > figuratively:
> > > KJV - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.
> > >
> > > Looking up the word "perdition" it is defined...
> > > NT:684 apoleia (ap-o'-li-a); from a presumed derivative of NT:622;
> > > ruin or loss (physical, spiritual or eternal):
> > > KJV - damnable (-nation), destruction, die, perdition, X perish,
> > pernicious
> > > ways, waste.
> > >
> > > I suppose the latter word could be stretched as to say he only died
> > > physically as that is one of it's definitions but that coupled with
> > > the prior word being "fully" destroyed, and the fact the two words are
> > > connected as a derivative, gives connotation Judas won't be among those we
> > > see in eternity with God. It is difficult to see how a man who could walk
> > > with Christ as his disciple has fallen, and then look at our own lives and
> > > consider we will not fall eternally despite our sin and levels of betrayal
> > > if we accept, believe and trust in Christ. The one guy who you'd expect
> > > to have the pardon of pardons, especially if this was a destined position
> > > for him somehow, would be Judas. His very part in history provided the
> > > segue for all mankind to have eternal life despite sin. It is definitely
> > > perplexing to me.
> > >
> > > Brad
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Brad
> > >
> > > Nothing else ruins the truth like stretching it
>
> Brad
>
> A lot of kneeling will keep you in good standing
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