mark wilson:
> I've experimented with omega 3's, and have taken some
> pretty high doses without any noticable effect on
> blood sugars.


> > I also wonder if body fat has something to do with
> > it.
> 
> I've considered that as well, and should find out
> soon, as I'm approaching 12% body fat right now, and
> am shooting for 10% by this summer.

You're already low by clinical standards, which are of course based on the
SAD, however. You're even within the range for endurance athletes. I don't
know what the avg HG body fat numbers are, but they are likely lower than
the American "normal" range--probably similar to those of endurance athletes
(around 5-15%). It is possible that even lower body fat levels could lower
blood sugar levels, but there's no guarantee.

> I have a lot of Native American blood in me, so my
> inability to deal with neolithic foods may have
> something to do with all this, especially when you
> take into consideration all the damage I must have
> done to myself  prior to going paleo. Maybe at this
> point I have to get everything absolutely perfect to
> fix the problem.

Yeah, unfortunately it may be too late too completely undo the damage. The
diet has not been a cure-all for me, though I've had some amazing
improvements from it and I'm stil seeing some improvements years later. It's
possible that you may see more benefits of diet and exercise with time.

Todd Moody:
> Tom Bri wrote:
> > Hi Todd. How about a very high fat, lower protein diet? Seems like
> > that would do the trick.
> 
> That seems to be the consensus of the discussion so far.
> 

OK, I'm noncommital on the subject, but I'll throw a monkey wrench in that
consensus with the views of M. Eades and Cordain on protein and blood sugar.
:-) Eades disagrees with Rosedale's claim that exceeding 0.5 g protein per
lb. of lean body mass will cause raised blood sugar levels and Cordain
believes relatively "high" levels of lean protein will actually improve
insulin sensitivity...


<<imsovain says: 
July 5th, 2006 at 3:28 pm 
I recently read "The Rosedale Diet" and Rosedale recommends less protein
than you do (.5 g protein/ lb lean body mass, add 10 g protein "if you are a
heavy exerciser"). He also seems to believe that excess consumed protein
will be turned into sugar, which in turn is converted to excess fat. On the
other hand, you state that "dietary protein turning to fat is not something
we really need to worry about".

Is this a point on which reasonable people can disagree or do you think
Rosedale is pretty much wrong?

Hi Imsovain-

Rosedale and I have a difference of opinion on the issue I suppose. In fact
he and I are going to debate the how-much-protein-is-enough issue in a
public forum at the American Society of Bariatric Physicians national
meeting this October in San Diego. I'll keep you posted as I put together my
material because the issue isn't a simple one that can be explained in a
sentence or two. And there is a big difference in how much protein is
required on a low-carb diet verses a high-carb diet.

Best-

MRE [Michael R. Eades]>>

----

From: The Evolutionary Basis for the Therapeutic Effects of High Protein
Diets Loren Cordain, PhD Journal of Nutrition & Athletic Excellence

"Numerous short term human dietary interventions have demonstrated the
therapeutic effect of lean, animal based protein upon blood lipid
parameters. Wolfe and colleagues have shown that the isocaloric substitution
of protein (23% energy) for carbohydrate in moderately hypercholesterolemic
subjects resulted in significant decreases in total, LDL and VLDL
cholesterol, and triglycerides while HDL cholesterol increased (75). Similar
blood lipid changes have been observed in normal healthy subjects (76) and
in type II diabetic patients in conjunction with improvements in glucose and
insulin metabolism (77, 78). 

...

Dietary Protein and Insulin/Glucose Metabolism and Weight Regulation

In addition to reducing CVD risk by improving the blood lipid profile and
reducing blood pressure, higher protein diets have been shown to improve
insulin sensitivity and glycemic control (79, 81, 84, 94-96 ) while
promoting greater weight loss (80, 83, 84, 97, 98) and improved long term
sustained weight maintenance (99, 100) than low fat high carbohydrate
calorie restricted diets. The weight loss superiority of higher protein,
calorie restricted diets over either calorie restricted (low fat/ high
carbohydrate) diets or calorie restricted (high fat/low carbohydrate)
appears to be caused by the greater satiety value of protein compared to
either fat or carbohydrate (97, 100-103). Of the three macronutrients
(protein, fat, carbohydrate), protein causes the greatest release of a gut
hormone (PYY) that reduces hunger (103) while simultaneously improving
central nervous system sensitivity to leptin (97), another hormone that
controls appetite and body weight regulation."


77. O'Dea K (1984): Marked improvement in carbohydrate and lipid metabolism
in diabetic Australian Aborigines after temporary reversion to traditional
lifestyle. Diabetes 33, 596-603.
78. O'Dea K, Traianedes K, Ireland P, Niall M, Sadler J, Hopper J & DeLuise
M (1989): The effects of diet differing in fat, carbohydrate, and fiber on
carbohydrate and lipid metabolism in type II diabetes. J. Am. Diet. Assoc.
89, 1076-1086.
THE PERFORMANCE MENU 15
79. Layman DK, Boileau RA, Erickson DJ, Painter JE, Shiue H, Sather C,
Christou DD. A reduced ratio of dietary carbohydrate to protein improves
body composition and blood lipid profiles during weight loss in adult women.
J Nutr. 2003 Feb;133(2):411-7.
80. Noakes M, Keogh JB, Foster PR, Clifton PM. Effect of an
energy-restricted, high-protein, low-fat diet relative to a conventional
high-carbohydrate, low-fat diet on weight loss, body composition,
nutritional status, and markers of cardiovascular health in obese women. Am
J Clin Nutr. 2005 Jun;81(6):1298-306.
81. Farnsworth E, Luscombe ND, Noakes M, Wittert G, Argyiou E, Clifton PM.
Effect of a high-protein, energy-restricted diet on body composition,
glycemic control, and lipid concentrations in overweight and obese
hyperinsulinemic men and women.
Am J Clin Nutr. 2003 Jul;78(1):31-9.
82. Luscombe-Marsh ND, Noakes M, Wittert GA, Keogh JB, Foster P, Clifton PM.
Carbohydrate-restricted diets high in either monounsaturated fat or protein
are equally effective at promoting fat loss and improving blood lipids. Am J
Clin Nutr. 2005 Apr;81(4):762-72
83. Aude YW, Agatston AS, Lopez-Jimenez F, Lieberman EH, Marie Almon, Hansen
M, Rojas G, Lamas GA, Hennekens CH. The national cholesterol education
program diet vs a diet lower in carbohydrates and higher in protein and
monounsaturated fat: a randomized trial. Arch Intern Med. 2004 Oct
25;164(19):2141-6.
84. McAuley KA, Hopkins CM, Smith KJ, McLay RT, Williams SM, Taylor RW, Mann
JI. Comparison of high-fat and high-protein diets with a high-carbohydrate
diet in insulin-resistant obese women. Diabetologia. 2005 Jan;48(1):8-16.
85. Appel LJ, Sacks FM, Carey VJ, Obarzanek E, Swain JF, Miller ER 3rd,
Conlin PR, Erlinger TP, Rosner BA, Laranjo NM, Charleston J, McCarron P,
Bishop LM; OmniHeart Collaborative Research Group. Effects of protein,
monounsaturated fat, and carbohydrate intake on blood pressure and serum
lipids: results of the OmniHeart randomized trial. JAMA. 2005 Nov
16;294(19):2455-64.
86. Kalopissis, AD Griffaton G, Fau D. Inhibition of hepatic very low
density lipoprotein secretion on obese Zucker rats adapted to a high protein
diet. Metabolism 1995;44:19-29.
87. Appel LJ. The effects of protein intake on blood pressure and
cardiovascular disease. Curr Opin Lipidol. 2003 Feb;14(1):55-9. Review.
88. Elliott P. Protein intake and blood pressure in cardiovascular disease.
Proc Nutr Soc. 2003 May;62(2):495-504.
89. He J, Whelton PK. Elevated systolic blood pressure as a risk factor for
cardiovascular and renal disease. J Hypertens Suppl. 1999 Jun;17(2):S7-13.
90. Burke V, Hodgson JM, Beilin LJ, Giangiulioi N, Rogers P, Puddey IB.
Dietary protein and soluble fiber reduce ambulatory blood pressure in
treated hypertensives. Hypertension. 2001 Oct;38(4):821-6.
91. Washburn S, Burke GL, Morgan T, Anthony M. Effect of soy protein
supplementation on serum lipoproteins, blood pressure, and menopausal
symptoms in perimenopausal women. Menopause. 1999 Spring;6(1):7-13.
92. He J, Gu D, Wu X, Chen J, Duan X, Chen J, Whelton PK. Effect of soybean
protein on blood pressure: a randomized, controlled trial.Ann Intern Med.
2005 Jul 5;143(1):1-9.
93. Hodgson JM, Burke V, Beilin LJ, Puddey IB. Partial substitution of
carbohydrate intake with protein intake from lean red meat lowers blood
pressure in hypertensive persons. Am J Clin Nutr. 2006 Apr;83(4):780-7
94. Nuttall FQ, Gannon MC. The metabolic response to a high-protein,
low-carbohydrate diet in men with type 2 diabetes mellitus. Metabolism. 2006
Feb;55(2):243-51.
95. Nuttall FQ, Gannon MC. Metabolic response of people with type 2 diabetes
to a high protein diet. Nutr Metab (Lond). 2004 Sep 13;1(1):6
52.
96. McAuley KA, Smith KJ, Taylor RW, McLay RT, Williams SM, Mann JI.
Long-term effects of popular dietary approaches on weight loss and features
of insulin resistance. Int J Obes (Lond). 2006 Feb;30(2):342-9.
97. Weigle DS, Breen PA, Matthys CC, Callahan HS, Meeuws KE, Burden VR,
Purnell JQ. A high-protein diet induces sustained reductions in appetite, ad
libitum caloric intake, and body weight despite compensatory changes in
diurnal plasma leptin and ghrelin concentrations. Am J Clin Nutr. 2005
Jul;82(1):41-8
98. Due A, Toubro S, Skov AR, Astrup A. Effect of normal-fat diets, either
medium or high in protein, on body weight in overweight subjects: a
randomised 1-year trial.
Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2004 Oct;28(10):1283-90
99. Westerterp-Plantenga MS, Lejeune MP, Nijs I, van Ooijen M, Kovacs EM.
High protein intake sustains weight maintenance after body weight loss in
humans. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2004 Jan;28(1):57-64.
100. Lejeune MP, Kovacs EM, Westerterp-Plantenga MS. Additional protein
intake limits weight regain after weight loss in humans. Br J Nutr. 2005
Feb;93(2):281-9.
101. Porrini M, Santangelo A, Crovetti R, Riso P, Testolin G, Blundell JE.
Reid M, Hetherington M. Relative effects of carbohydrates and protein on
satiety -- a review of methodology. Neurosci Biobehav Rev 1997
May;21(3):295-308
102. Poppitt SD, McCormack D, Buffenstein R. Short-term effects of
macronutrient preloads on appetite and energy intake in lean women. Physiol
Behav 1998 Jun 1;64(3):279-85
103. Batterham RL, Heffron H, Kapoor S, Chivers JE, Chandarana K, Herzog H,
Le Roux CW, Thomas EL, Bell JD, Withers DJ. Critical role for peptide YY in
protein-mediated satiation and body-weight regulation. Cell Metab. 2006
Sep;4(3):223-33.