Actually Vicki,
even the spectatorship thing is pretty old.  Do you realize that if you had
lived in the middle ages that you would have never been allowed to take
communion?  You would have sat in the congregation and observed while the
priests enjoyed communion, intinction style, behind a scrim.  Since you
probably couldn't read, the only understanding of the word that you would
have had was from the morality plays that the church organized.  You
wouldn't have been allowed to sing, because you wouldn't have been
considered worthy and, besides, you probably wouldn't have known
latin.  You would have watched the church grow wealthier and wealthier,
accumulating property, art work and literature while you would
have  been  lucky to scratch out a living with your one ox and fourteen
children.  If you killed a deer for food from the king's forest, you would
have been found guilty of stealing and  you wouldn't expect the church to
come to your defense because the holy people would have been too
pre-occupied bellying up to his royal highness for certain favors.  I could
go on, but I think that you get my point.  The most blessed and most cursed
event in church history was to have   Emperor Constantine adopt
Christianity as the official religion of the Roman empire.  She had
problems before that, but at that point, she jumped in bed with the devil
herself and has been doing a lousy job of extracting herself ever
since.    Neveerthe less, she is still Christ's chosen bride.
Kathy


At 09:23 PM 2/28/2005, you wrote:
>Kathy,
>
>I agree that much of the behavior has existed from perhaps not long after
>the church was born.  However, this spectatorship, I can't help thinking
>that it came in as various para-church organizations started picking up the
>job of the church.  I'm not saying they are bad.  But maybe there would be
>less need for them if the church was being the church, or called out ones in
>function.    And thank God for the church.  Unless I miss my guess, and I
>could very well do that, I believe we'll see it rise up and function as it
>was meant to function one day.
>
>Promise not to smack me too hard Kathy.  Smile.
>
>Vicki
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Kathy Du Bois" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Monday, February 28, 2005 3:20 PM
>Subject: Re: [ECHURCH-USA] Church On The Move
>
>
> > Well Vicki,
> > Truthfully, to answer your question about when the church stopped being
> > loving and accepting of others in their imperfections, I think that it's
> > pretty obvious from the history recorded in the bible that it began pretty
> > much at the beginning.  That's why so much is written to correct such
> > sinful behavior by James and Paul and Peter.  Satan has been working from
> > within since the get go.  After all, if he can destroy the church, his
> > problems will be solved, so he thinks!
> > Kathy
> >
> >
> > At 10:41 AM 2/27/2005, you wrote:
> > >Kathy,
> > >
> > >In so many places the church has turned to people showing up on Sunday
>and
> > >doing their thing as spectators.  I'd like to know when we quit accepting
> > >each other as brothers and sisters in the family of God with our
>limitations
> > >and imperfections as well as our God-given gifts.  I'm not specifically
> > >saying that of your church.  Just that this kind of trend has done no
>favors
> > >to the looks of Christ's bride.
> > >
> > >Vicki
> > >