Vinny,

Good comments.  I believe that's the way it works.  Frankly, I can't explain
it, try as I might, but your explanation is as good as I have heard.  I know
now, at least, that Lordship isn't a bunch of dues and don'ts.  I had to
misspell dues to make the synthesizer say it right.

Phil.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Vinny Samarco" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: Lordship


> Hi Phil,
> Yes, This is very good.
> Sure, I believe that the devil could mask himself and give someone
temporary
> relief from depression and other symptoms.  He is the author of it, so
since
> he thinks he might have a convert, of course, he can withdraw these
sympoms.
> He is the master deceiver, and doesn't play by any rules other than his
own.
>
> Now concerning Lordship, I sure don't know as much as I should--but here
is
> what I have experienced.
> Many, including myself, use the Lordship of Jesus in a very shallow
> repetative way. I don't think he can be truly Lord until all that we are,
> all that we have, and all that we will ever hope to be is filtered through
> Him.
> Vinny
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Phil Scovell" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 5:04 PM
> Subject: Lordship
>
>
> > Lordship Salvation
> >
> >
> > By Phil Scovell
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >      Although I have heard at least 40,000 sermons in my
> > lifetime, I am unable to calculate the percentage of just exactly
> > how many of those sermons have been on the subject of Lordship.
> > It has been a bunch, though, that much I know.  Furthermore, I
> > have no idea how many sermons and Bible lessons I have preached
> > and taught over the years but you can add that to my grand total,
> > if you are of a mind, but it won't make me any more spiritual.  I
> > must admit, however, I never understood what Lordship was all
> > about so I never preached or taught on it.
> >
> >      If I boiled down everything I have heard and read on the
> > subject, I would have to ashamedly confess that my view of
> > Lordship salvation came down to how much I did, or didn't do, for
> > God.  By that I mean, I always had a positive and negative list of
> > things I did, and didn't do, for the Lord.  It was my spiritual
> > ruler.  I went to church every time the doors were opened, I read
> > my Bible daily, I memorized Scripture, I prayed 45 minutes every
> > day, I witnessed and won people to Christ, and from that point, my
> > list grew longer and longer as I thought of new and positive
> > things I could add.  If I experienced any discouragement for any
> > particular reason, and upon mentally reviewing that list of
> > spiritual things, I wasn't feeling better, I immediately referred
> > to my negative list.  This was my trusty standby list of things
> > such as, I didn't own a TV, for awhile anyhow, I didn't go to
> > movies, my wife didn't wear slacks, no fooling, I didn't smoke, I
> > didn't cuss, I didn't chew, I didn't go with girls who do, I
> > didn't live immorally, I didn't lie, I didn't cheat, I didn't take
> > the Lord's name in vain and again, from there, the list got longer
> > and longer as I continually made additions.  Regrettably, this was
> > what I thought was putting the Lord first and, hence, I was living
> > Lordship salvation.  In recent years, I have learned I couldn't
> > have been more wrong.
> >
> >      Four times, in the book of Revelation and in no other book of
> > the Bible, Jesus proclaimed He was the Alpha and Omega; the First
> > and the Last.  Sure, I understood what that meant theologically.
> > After all, I had studied it in Bible college.  Right?  He, Jesus,
> > was before all things and after all things, too.  Right?  Well, it
> > was something like that at any rate.  I never personalized that
> > statement of truth to my own life because I didn't know it was
> > possible.
> >
> >      Recently while praying with a woman in a prayer session, this
> > truth struck me with resounding astonishment and clarity and it
> > suddenly became more personal than I ever knew was possible.
> >
> >      In this particular situation, this 39 year old woman had been
> > diagnosed with a number of things including bipolar disorder,
> > manic depression, OCD, or Obsessive compulsive Disorder, and about
> > every other disorder and letter of the alphabet one could
> > imagine.
> >
> >      This woman also had something else quite unusual that had
> > plagued her nearly her entire life.  Now, get a hold of yourself
> > because you are going to find what this woman did mighty
> > uncomfortable.  Here it is and remember, I warned you.  She prayed
> > to the devil for relief from her depression and other emotional
> > problems.
> >
> >      "Prayed to the devil?" you ask with total credulity.  "Did it
> > work," you ask next out of curiosity?
> >
> >      It sure did.
> >
> >      "Oh," you say, "this woman must not have been a Christian
> > then if it worked."
> >
> >      If you think that, you would be wrong because she is a born
> > again Christian.  At this point, I would like to remind you that
> > Job's own wife encouraged him to curse God and die.
> >
> >      I can hear someone saying, "Well, if she was praying to the
> > devil, why couldn't she just stop it?"
> >
> >      That's a very good question.  The only people who would think
> > that, however, are those who know nothing about depression,
> > little, if anything, about emotional illness in general, and
> > absolutely nothing about the deceitfulness of the Enemy
> > specifically.
> >
> >      It has been my experience, in praying with people by
> > employing intercessory prayer techniques, that the Lord almost
> > always starts at the beginning of a person's life when He
> > initiates the healing process.  If the Lord doesn't begin at the
> > beginning of their life, He always, some where along the line,
> > ends up there and for a very good reason. It is now obvious to me
> > as to why, but at first, I didn't recognize it for what it was.  I
> > have even prayed with people that went clear back to when they
> > were in the womb.  Is that possible?  Of course it is.  Ask any
> > doctor.  If you don't know a wise doctor, ask John the Baptizer
> > when he leaped in his mothers womb, when Mary, the mother of
> > Jesus, told Elisabeth that she was expecting.
> >
> >      Most people find this theologically confusing because, they
> > say, "But I didn't become a Christian until I was 17 years of
> > age."  As if the Lord, of course, didn't know when they were going
> > to become a Christian.  This fact alone, reveals a tremendously
> > powerful doctrinal truth but I'll skip the theology lesson for
> > now.
> >
> >      As I prayed with this particular lady one evening, she
> > discovered a place in her life when something changed spiritually
> > out of fear.  Something seemed as if it snapped inside of her and
> > she felt, if she would pray to the devil, maybe she could get
> > relief from the depression, repressive, obsessive, and compulsive
> > thoughts of which she suffered.  The Enemy, of course, was happy
> > to oblige because that's the source of her pain and fear and
> > woundedness in the first place.
> >
> >      As we prayed, we arrived at this moment of decision in her
> > emotionally turbulent life.  In probing this area through prayer,
> > the Lord revealed a powerful spiritual and eternal truth to her
> > and that was, He is the Alpha and Omega of her entire life.
> >
> >      Considering this truth at face value, we all know it is, in
> > fact, true.  Why?  Because we understand Jesus has always been.
> > Well, we may not understand it, at least I never have been able to
> > comprehend His eternality, but we theologically understand.  Yet,
> > to experience it, to literally feel this truth, is an entirely
> > different matter.  Until that night, praying with this lady, I had
> > never personally experienced, or felt this Biblical truth of the
> > nature and character of God.
> >
> >      I have also written on the experience of the omnipresence of
> > God.  Of course, the doctrine of the omnipresence of God is
> > literally impossible to explain.  Yet, during a intercessory
> > prayer session, the Lord literally allowed me to experience, or to
> > feel, His omnipresence.  I was, by the way, totally healed of the
> > woundedness in that particular memory at that very moment and I
> > have never forgotten the spiritual amazement I felt at the moment
> > He revealed the theological truth to me.
> >
> >      As a Baptist, I was always raised to understand that
> > feelings, spiritual feelings that is, was unspiritual, sort of
> > speak.  We always taught it was perfectly ok to be emotional at
> > the moment of salvation, of course, but after that?  Forget it.
> > This was one of our major criticisms of the Charismatics and
> > Pentecostals because to us, it just seemed they had way too much
> > emotional enthusiasm when it came to the Christian life.  Of
> > course I am exaggerating, to some degree, but this was literally
> > how I believe based upon how I was taught growing up as a child.
> >
> >      As a result of the dozens of healing experiences I have had
> > during prayer, I know that it is not only possible to experience
> > God but to feel what we might call The Theological Truth.  Perhaps
> > it would be best to refer it as Theology At Work.  Say, there's a
> > title for a book if I ever heard one.
> >
> >      Have you experienced God in your walk with Him?  I am not
> > asking you if you have ever felt God, that is, His persona and His
> > Holy nature.  I have felt His presence throughout my life many
> > times.  I have felt His closeness and nearness.  I have felt his
> > involvement in my life.  I have seen Him working in my life.  I
> > have certainly felt His peace but that isn't what I am asking.  It
> > is something entirely different from the experience of His
> > theology or literally his personage.  Yes, I can hear someone
> > saying, "I experienced God when I was born again."  That's
> > wonderful.  You should have.  Yet, I am speaking of something
> > other than your initial salvation.  I am not talking about
> > experiencing your salvation all over again but can you honestly
> > say you have felt the nature of God?  You would know this, of
> > course, if the result of the encounter brought revelation,
> > illumination, and most importantly, healing to your life, which
> > was eternally permanent.  That is another way of saying, it
> > brought everlasting victory to your life and you never ever had to
> > work at keeping it from getting away from you.
> >
> >      Concerning Jesus as Alpha and Omega, I experienced this
> > truth, or felt it in my born again spirit, and recognized it as
> > Lordship, as this same truth was revealed to the lady with whom I
> > prayed.  If Jesus is the Alpha and Omega of your life, the
> > beginning and the ending of your life, then He is truly Lord of
> > everything in between.
> >
> >      "Oh, I know this already," I hear someone saying.
> >
> >      That's good, of course, to know it I mean, but have you
> > experienced it as truth?  Knowing it as truth and experiencing it
> > as truth are not the same thing.  If you know it as theology,
> > that's good, but it doesn't mean you have experienced it as The
> > Truth.  If you experience it as truth, on the other hand, then you
> > will also know it theologically.  The reverse, on the other hand,
> > is not necessarily true.
> >
> >      "So how do I experience, or feel, His truth?"
> >
> >      Through prayer and the healing power of the Holy Spirit and
> > the Word of God.
> >
> >      "But how do I know if I am healed?"
> >
> >      That's easy.  Let me ask you a few questions.  Are you
> > afraid or fearful about anything?  Are you scared?  Do you still
> > feel guilty about something you can't get over?  Did someone hurt
> > your feelings somewhere along the line in your life that you just
> > can't forget?  Are you ashamed about something?  What about anger?
> > Do you have a temper that gets away from you once and awhile?
> > What about fear?  Is there something that always brings fear or
> > anxiety to the surface when thinking about it?  Have you ever said
> > to yourself, "I will never forget when," and you speak someone's
> > name that has wounded you in some way?  What about the pain of
> > rejection?  Do you still feel it at times?  Do you ever feel
> > inferiority?  What about that sexual indiscretion?  Why won't it
> > stop leaving you alone since God has forgiven you for that sin?
> > Why won't the pornography, real or mentally generated, leave you
> > alone?  Have you ever realized that you just cannot forgive
> > someone for what they did to you?  Does the abortion you had
> > without anyone's knowledge still pain you deeply?  If the answer
> > to any one of these questions is in the affirmative, then you have
> > not experienced the character and nature of God in that area.  In
> > short, you need to be healed in some specific area that is causing
> > that feeling because it is truly a wounded area of your life for
> > which Jesus wants to be Lord.
> >
> >      If you want to know more, call me.
> >
> > Phil Scovell
> > Denver, Colorado USA
> > Mountain Time Zone
> > 303-507-5175
> >
> > I Flew Kites With Jesus
> > www.SafePlaceFellowship.com