Speaking of prevailing rate, we have a concrete contractor in town who was
telling us she was bidding on her first prevailing rate job and was
flabbergasted at what she was going to have to bid/pay a kid 1-year out of
high school who's working for her only because he's 5 pounds too heavy to
get into the Air Force, and has been working as an apprentice for 2 months.
$35/hour she'd have to charge - she doesn't even charge that for her
husband's time and he's been in the business for years.  The kid knows he's
not worth anywhere near that much and has opted to take the day off with
pay.  She still makes out in the end because also her worker's comp rate
doesn't sky rocket for the one-day job.  I'm really glad I'm not in the
construction business.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabriel Orgrease" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 07:54
Subject: Re: [BP] tar and asbestos


> [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
> >     It is a quaintly quasi *Not quasi. Totally. *legal term which
> >     often equates w/ "Ain't my job."
> >
> I will rephrase my offhand comment. Means & method is a legal term that
> is used and abused so often that in effect it creates a confusion in
> determining a line between design and execution (too many electrons
> flowing), most often to be brought up between architect and contractor,
> but also sometimes between engineer and contractor. For the insurance
> companies and lawyers it means something when a project has gone into
> the legal system and everyone not related to the building process is
> trying to figure out who is to blame for an f-up. In day-to-day practice
> it is more like this:
>
> Architect: "Don't you think a larger grinder would work better?"
> (Interpretation: Crimminee... I'm going to have to stand here all day
> waiting on this dimbo.)
> Contractor: "Don't get into my means and methods." (Interpretation: --
> from the non-English language of your choice -- I don't have enough
> money in this job to go buy new tools. Kiss off!)
>
> Contractor: "Do you think I should put another brace here?"
> (Interpretation: I don't know what in F I'm doing.)
> Architect: "Means and methods is yours." (Interpretation: This guy knows
> jack about shoring and I'd better back off before he drops the wall.)
>
> In practice, in my experience, design professionals are always meddling
> in means & methods and contractors are always meddling in design. When
> it works I think this is a good thing, everyone keeping in mind their
> comfort zone regarding legal and professional liability. Where
> cooperative teamwork becomes an issue, as I say, is when there is an
> f-up and the project goes towards the legal system for resolution.
>
> As an aside, I'm thinking how in some industries there is a fairly clear
> line between legit and black market whereas in construction, despite all
> of the legal constructs and concepts that exist there is not a very
> clear line to demarcate Haliburton or Bechtel from a guy in a PU truck
> other than the scale of their operation. I heard a comment made to the
> effect that one reason the reconstruction of the Iraqi infrastructure is
> slowed down is that US funds have to go to US firms, which is like
> saying that all the work has to be done at prevailing rate... rather
> than conforming to the economic and social situation on the ground which
> is that the Iraqi's would pay their own people, the people that built a
> good bit of their infrastructure to begin with, a hell of a lot less
> than prevailing rate. And they might be happier and less apt to shoot
> people if they had any sort of job. Give them jobs and mortgages and
> tell them it is freedom. If we are going to outsource then I think it
> would make sense to outsource to the Iraqis themselves... the govt. and
> the public here in the US already outsources their construction needs to
> non-conforming foreigners right here at home, and takes a blind eye to
> the practice. Why should we do different in Iraq?
>
> ][<
>
> --
> To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
> uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
> <http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
>

--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>