Oh Phil,
        Even if you learn the root cause and can begin killing it there,
the drugs are doing so much damage further up the tree that not
everything may be salvageable.  I pray that I'm wrong.   I will also pray
that you will find the root cause.
        May I please just take one tenative prod.  First of all, I know
that there is a lot that I don't know and I also know that when any of us
relay an event to echurch, we leave a lot out for the sake of clarity and
to stay within the 500 line limit.  (GRIN!)  I mean, I know myself that
when I am telling about events that take place with Chris I probably
leave a lot of readers questioning because they are only reading the
highlights of what has occured.  I say this so that you know that I know
that I am missing a lot of information, but I think that I may have heard
enough to at least suggest a possible area that you could consider as a
root cause.  Again, I don't know, and I realize that you may have already
considered this and dismissed it, so please just take it for what it is
worth and, please, don't be offended at my suggestion or think that I am
judging.
        I remember the story that you told about Gretchen when she was
around fifteen, I believe and your children were in a car accident when
your oldest son was driving.  I remember you saying that Gretchen is the
one that stayed in contact with you and let you know how they were
getting along.  That story, plus a few others that you have related have
sort of been an example to me of how sensative she is.
        I also know that you have relayed to us that you are a no
nonsence parent and have been willing to  take the hammer to things that
you have disapproved of that the kids brought into your home.  I know
that what I'm about to say can't be all of it because I know that you
have mentioned that you began having trouble with her very early, but
could there be anything to the possibility that there may be a real
perrsonality clash between you and her.  Is it possible that if you had
used a different parenting style, or different approach, she may have had
less to rebell against, but that once this pattern was set in motion she
just had no idea how to come back from it and, in frustration, gave up
and got worse?
        I know that GReg and I have a lot of regrets about how hard nosed
we were in our parenting, especially with our oldest two.  Our parenting
has changed dramatically with the two younger kids and we often find
ourselves wishing that we could go back and take back a lot of the over
reactions that we had to situations that Matt and Chris created.  We even
wonder if Chris would have turned out differently if we  had just been
different ourselves.
        Now we find ourselves trying to put into practice, with the older
two, what we have learned from the parenting of the younger two, but old
patterns die hard and we are all learning how to adjust.
        YOu have mentioned that Gretchen has rejected anything that has
to do with Christianity.  I'm just wondering if one possibility for this
could be because she sees God as having the same personality as you and,
if there is a clash, she may be thinking that she would have the same
problem getting along  with God as she does with a parent.  I feel really
bad saying any of this, but just as some people tend to focus on the
positive instead of the negative, some people remember the anger in
another person better then the love.  Is it possible that Gretchen is the
type that remembers your anger more than your love and has passed that
assessment on to God as well so that no matter how much we tell her that
God loves her, she can only see Him as angry?
        Well, there's my two cents worth, if its even worth that much.
I'll be interested in hearing your response.
Kathy

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