Methinks the herring in your argument is red, Deri.  What you're saying is analogous to, "Hitler is not responsible for the death of millions during the '30s and '40s."  In the strictest sense, that's true: he did not personally pull the triggers or open the gas valves.  Therefore, there is no "fact" that he's responsible for killing anyone except himself, Eva Braun and maybe a few allies in the "Great War".

If we can't agree that there are certain ethical "truths" (e.g., it's wrong to steal another's food, rape his wife, kill his young child), then on what basis do we form a society?  More importantly, how is it that the knowledge of these truths is innate?  Or, do you feel that these are not universal truths due to their time dimension and that someday we will "progress" to a point where there is no universal "right" or "wrong"?  If that's the case, is that the kind of world in which you would care to live?

Kyle

"If it takes a village to raise a child, chances are he'll be the idiot" --Kyle Cleveland
----- Original Message -----
From: Deri James <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Monday, November 24, 2003 6:42 pm
Subject: Re: did i light a match near the gasoline tank?

> On Monday 24 Nov 2003 7:08 pm, you wrote:
> > Ken,
> >
> > I really do feel that there is a vast gulf of mis-understanding
> between all
> > races, creeds and faiths within the US and globally.  A big
> part, I feel,
> > is that a large segment of the culturally "elite" (mass media,
> > universities, political organizations) take a cue from Rodney
> King.  Let me
> > qualify:
> >
> > On that spring day in '95, I really think that Mr. King was
> sincere in his
> > question, "Can't we all get along?"  The groups I mentioned,
> however,> parrot these words and do nothing else except ask us to
> police up our
> > language so it's not offensive to some particular group.
> Changing words
> > does not change attitudes of the heart.  The only way that can
> happen is if
> > each group--each individual--examines his or her behavior and
> attitudes and
> > is willing to accept truth and responsibility.  I fear this is
> not going to
> > happen as we are in a time where folks say, with all
> seriousness, "that's
> > may be true for you, but not for me."  Facts are binary--they
> are either
> > correct or incorrect.  They are not correct for some, but
> incorrect for
> > others.
>
> But "facts" have a time dimension, what is widely taken as a true
> statement at
> one time by a majority, is thought to be false at another. (The
> earth is flat
> - the earth is round, God created Adam & Eve - we are descended from
> primates). Even a "fact" like "water is wet" is only true at certain
> temperatures!! I leave binary "truth" to computers, the real world is
> analogue (and much more interesting).
>
> > Until each of us is willing to take responsibility for our own
> failures,> we're doomed to have cultures of complaint and
> professional victimization.
> > Color me paranoid, but I do believe we are headed for an
> internal war of
> > culture and race equal to anything ever seen in the Balkans,
> Middle East or
> > Africa.
> >
> > Kyle
> >
>
> Cheers
>
> Deri
>