If clean water and air are "what the customer prizes," Ken, then big
business has been destroying that in the name of profit for hundreds of
years.  I don't see many "good" businessmen when I use your definition.

And as for the pie metaphor, it doesn't fit capitalism.  The "pie" can
indeed get bigger, but rather than adding new pieces that are there for the
"have nots" to take, in capitalism, the pie pieces have already been
snatched up, and only grow in the hands of those who already have a hold on
their piece.

Don't wax poetic about big business--not until after you explain away Enron,
or other companies whose big executives cash out on their jobs at the
expense of lower-level workers and shareholders.

Don't wax poetic about the "dreams" of our nation until you walk into an
inner-city school in Seattle or Chicago, New York or Los Angeles--the
schools inhabited by poor ethnic minorities who carry guns because they
don't feel safe without them--and can prove to me that they have the same
resources as suburban schools with higher property values to fund them.  In
our nation's economy, the poor don't dream big because it only takes a
little dream to rise above the bottom of the pack--not because their dreams
wouldn't be astounding it if they truly had the same opportunity as their
citizen siblings.

When tobacco companies are "simple" enough to assert that their product
doesn't cause lung cancer, I don't hold out hope for the simplicity of big
business.  And what about those who don't have the money to be a customer?
Does big business have an obligation to cater to those who don't live in the
right income bracket to afford the big-screen TVs they sell, the fast food
they peddle, the cars they manufacture, or the petroleum they mine?

Capitalism's credo is "if you can pay for it, you can have it."  That
carries with it the assumption that "if you can't pay for it, you don't
deserve it."

Scott


----- Original Message -----
From: ken barber <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2003 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: Mag's whip; was RE: Am I the only one online?


> actually good businessmen would not anger their
> customers by destroying what the customer prized. the
> pies here can be as big as one dreams to make them.
> AND THE BAKERS ARE NOT SIMPLE ENOUGH TO DESTROY THE
> AIR WE BREATH NOR DIRTY THE WATER WE DRINK.
>
> YES INDEED!!!
>
> --- pam <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > Yes!!
> >
> > Pam
> >
> >
> > From: "Deri James" <[log in to unmask]>
> > >
> > > Pies are of finite size. If someone grabs more
> > than they need someone
> > could go
> > > hungry!!
> > >
> > > Suppose the pie we're talking about is "clean air"
> > or "fresh water", I
> > don't
> > > think tax cuts and increased consumerism is
> > exactly the panacea required.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Simple Simon
> > >
> > >
> >
> > > On Tuesday 10 Jun 2003 10:02 pm, Ken wrote:
> > > > actually i see it different. for one person to
> > get a
> > > > piece of pie does not exclude another
> > necessarily.
> > > > what you do is make a bigger pie so more people
> > can
> > > > have their piece. you do that by cutting taxes
> > and
> > > > growing the ecconomy. let's see, someone
> > proposed to
> > > > do that. gee the name eludes me.
> > > >
>
>
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