What about the Superbowl? I only heard about this year's World Series!!!
- Pam "The only sport in our house is English Football" Stevenson
Pam, If you're an Arsenal fan, my apologies, but I do want to see the goal that lost them the streak.
-=-Dan Lane
-----Original Message-----
From: Automatic digest processor [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 4:01 AM
To: Recipients of BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS digests
Subject: BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS Digest - 18 Oct 2002 to 19 Oct 2002
(#2002-281)
There are 12 messages totalling 624 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Stifling discussion? Or... Eastern White pIne
2. Production... (3)
3. Blank days (4)
4. Why is everybody always criticizing...
5. Cotswald cottage (2)
6. Stifling discussion? Or....
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 06:22:44 -0400
From: Leland Torrence <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Stifling discussion? Or... Eastern White pIne
John,
You use eastern white pine for thresholds by choice, convenience or
because it is a historical replacement match?
Leland
Research and Restore
-----Original Message-----
From: The "listen to the silence" listserv ....
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John
Leeke
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 12:07 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Stifling discussion? Or....
I think that when the unrelated chatter becomes a problem it is due to
the expectation of the reader. When I pick up a plank of Eastern White
Pine down at the mill, I expect to trim off the end checks, rip off the
wainy edges, work around the knots and have a few select clear-grain
cuttings, which I will plane and work into new thresholds for an old
building. We might find the solution by leading ourselves and new
listees to expect a certian signal to noise ratio.
I see BP as a natural resource that needs refining before use. As was
said, if I want preservation gold, I buy a book, take a course or hire
the specialist. But, since I like prospecting and enjoy the view down
the gulch, up along the ridge and white caps beyond, I subscibe to BP.
The view has little to do with preservation, but it is why I live life.
John
by hammer and hand great works do stand
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 07:24:15 -0400
From: Leland Torrence <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Production...
John and Ken,
It is all about production or you will not be doing the work.
Once the specifications are made the task is to devise the best
production methods. Most of the work I am involved with has a
tradeskill/hour estimate. Once you quantify the task then budgets and
estimates are based on how many persons at what skill level will be
required. If the job is bid and the bidder does not allocate suitable
skilled labor where required then the bidder is disqualified.
There is a time for thinking and a time for working. If there
are a few days of electrical work to be done do I need three men at the
rate of an E1? Probably not. If I have a wall to repoint how many
thinkers do I need on site? When the work commences, I want skilled,
production workers. They can be philosophers and be cell phone addicts,
during breaks and after work. The great majority of craftsman I admire,
rarely talk while they work. (And what's with the youngest, greenest
worker getting to choose the radio station?)
A good budget includes cost estimates for items that may not be
seen, but due to experience can be anticipated. I call these
predictable contingencies and they can be quantified as alternates. A
example of same is in the roofing industry it is standard to set a SF
rate for deck replacement. An educated guesstimate of cost and time can
be made based on experience. If you have done one or two sill
replacements on a 1750's farm house in Vermont you might have a hard
time giving a price and you would have "The fear of naming a number".
If you've done twenty five you can confidently say: " I've done a
bunch of these and they usually run about this much. Would you like me
to take off a few boards, then I can give you a better idea?"
Good craftsmen/business owners are always working to improve
production. We often talk about the lack of apprenticeship programs and
accreditation, but even in the education that is available I don't
remember seeing anything on production. I do know that in Ken's and my
case the cost of our labor pool is fixed and often higher than our
competition (and more skilled) and it is how we determine to skin the
cat that determines if we get the job. If we can find a better way to
access the site or work a full day uninterrupted by weather or find
better protective head gear or quantify work prior to getting to the
site better, we improve production.
I think every good craftsman would admit that he does a lot of
thinking off the job, that is why he is good: Anticipation. How do I
load my truck? What is every conceivable tool and material I will need
today so that I do not need to leave the site? I need to grind and
sharpen my 2" chisel. I have talked to many craftsman that look at the
job after clean-up at the end of the day and can't rest until they have
been able to build the solution in their heads.
As with a great athlete, all the talent and training does not make up
for game time.
Research and Restore!
Leland
-----Original Message-----
From: The "listen to the silence" listserv ....
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John
Leeke
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 11:06 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: So what's the deal on the expansion joints...
Ken writes:
>>Not fair to compare the mind-set of production masons
with those who tinker in histo presto or really fine work. Histo presto
masons usually get booted off production jobs because they think....
thinking slows down the process of setting brick. Thinking causes a
commotion and delays production. <<
Ken:
May I quote you on this? Early on I noticed this. Back in the 1970s as a
tradesperson I was alternately accused and praised for "working
delibrately." I now can see that part of the deliberation was thinking
about what I was doing. It was so true that I eventually adopted a
policy of telling clients that work will slow down when I arrive,
because I usually have to get the tradespeople to think about what they
are doing. We can sometimes set an objective for the work to speed back
up again, occasionally to a higher rate than before, as a result of
solutions, training, etc.
John
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:09:52 EDT
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Production...
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In a message dated 10/18/02 7:25:54 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
> Once the specifications are made the task is to devise the best
> production methods.
The production methods for the caulk on the zig-zag expansion joint at the
Jewish Community Center on 76th and Amsterdam was by a large, blunt thumb,
apparently operated by a drunk in a hailstorm. I examined it myself
yesterday. What's more, although the pointing is charcoal grey like a good
suit, the caulk is "bronze" (aka brown). Best, Christopher (Going to look
at a dog in New Hope tomorrow)
PS Leland, thank you, you are swell. Sign me, Moby
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/18/02 7:25:54 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Once the specifications are made the task is to devise the best<BR>
production methods. </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
The production methods for the caulk on the zig-zag expansion joint at the Jewish Community Center on 76th and Amsterdam was by a large, blunt thumb, apparently operated by a drunk in a hailstorm. I examined it myself yesterday. What's more, although the pointing is charcoal grey like a good suit, the caulk is "bronze" (aka brown). Best, Christopher (Going to look at a dog in New Hope tomorrow)<BR>
<BR>
PS Leland, thank you, you are swell. Sign me, Moby</FONT></HTML>
--part1_187.f99fb61.2ae15410_boundary--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 08:16:47 -0400
From: "M. P. Edison" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Production...
(And what's with the youngest, greenest
> worker getting to choose the radio station?)
> > Leland
>
Everybody else knows they are there to earn a living and get on with
the work. The young often seem to think that work must be an
entertaining, minimally intrusive inconvenience in their self-centered
world. We need their strong backs, so we tolerate the noise.
Eventually, hopefully, they grow up and recognize that work can have
meaning and that proficiency and consistency are rewarded in a much
more tangible manner.
Then, again, there are some who find their radios in the dumpster
after repeated warnings that there is an OSHA noise limit.
Edison Coatings, Inc.
M. P. Edison
President
3 Northwest Drive
Plainville, CT 06062 USA
Phone: (860)747-2220
Fax: (860)747-2280
email: [log in to unmask]
Internet: www.edisoncoatings.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:01:58 -0400
From: Christopher Tavener <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Blank days
I haven't received the daily digest regularly for the last two weeks and am
wondering if there is anything wrong?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:11:42 EDT
From: Mary Krugman <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Blank days
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In a message dated 10/18/2002 9:05:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
> I haven't received the daily digest regularly for the last two weeks and am
> wondering if there is anything wrong?
Ohboyohboyohboy -- have you missed it! In your absence we have successfully
eliminated world evil and have determined the outcome of the 2003 Superbowl.
Sorry you couldn't make it. Some brainy admin person will no doubt have to
adjust your settings at the Mother of all Motherboards at St. Johns.edu.
Julip.
--part1_ac.2f2fb752.2ae1628e_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 10/18/2002 9:05:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I haven't received the daily digest regularly for the last two weeks and am<BR>
wondering if there is anything wrong?</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Ohboyohboyohboy -- have you missed it! In your absence we have successfully eliminated world evil and have determined the outcome of the 2003 Superbowl. Sorry you couldn't make it. Some brainy admin person will no doubt have to adjust your settings at the Mother of all Motherboards at St. Johns.edu.<BR>
<BR>
Julip.<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:38:14 -0400
From: "Stevenson, Pam" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Blank days
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
--Boundary_(ID_Lyl3YOLjXZB8RBs/jCWUog)
Content-type: text/plain
-----Original Message-----
From: Mary Krugman [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 9:12 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Blank days
In a message dated 10/18/2002 9:05:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
I haven't received the daily digest regularly for the last two weeks and am
wondering if there is anything wrong?
Ohboyohboyohboy -- have you missed it! In your absence we have successfully
eliminated world evil and have determined the outcome of the 2003 Superbowl.
Sorry you couldn't make it. Some brainy admin person will no doubt have to
adjust your settings at the Mother of all Motherboards at St. Johns.edu.
Julip.
--Boundary_(ID_Lyl3YOLjXZB8RBs/jCWUog)
Content-type: text/html
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=US-ASCII">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=738143713-18102002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>What about the Superbowl? I only heard about this year's World
Series!!!</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=738143713-18102002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=738143713-18102002><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#0000ff
size=2>- Pam "The only sport in our house is English Football"
Stevenson</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Mary Krugman
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 18, 2002 9:12
AM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: Blank days<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=arial,helvetica><FONT size=2>In
a message dated 10/18/2002 9:05:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
TYPE="CITE">I haven't received the daily digest regularly for the last two
weeks and am<BR>wondering if there is anything
wrong?</BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Ohboyohboyohboy -- have you missed it! In
your absence we have successfully eliminated world evil and have determined
the outcome of the 2003 Superbowl. Sorry you couldn't make it. Some brainy
admin person will no doubt have to adjust your settings at the Mother of all
Motherboards at St.
Johns.edu.<BR><BR>Julip.<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>
--Boundary_(ID_Lyl3YOLjXZB8RBs/jCWUog)--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:02:26 -0400
From: "Becker, Dan" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Blank days
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher Tavener
> Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 9:02 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Blank days
>=20
>=20
> I haven't received the daily digest regularly for the last=20
> two weeks and am wondering if there is anything wrong?
Some would consider that a blessing. I checked your subscription and
your settings are fine, so I don't know what's going on.
___________________________________________________
Dan Becker, Exec. Dir. "What's this? Fan mail
Raleigh Historic from some flounder?"
Districts Commission - Bullwinkle J. Moose
[log in to unmask]
919/890-3678
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:42:40 EDT
From: Met History <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Why is everybody always criticizing...
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In a message dated 10/18/02 10:02:58 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
> > I haven't received the daily digest regularly for the last
> > two weeks and am wondering if there is anything wrong?
>
>
....Ralph? Sign me, Lightning Rod
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">In a message dated 10/18/02 10:02:58 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">> I haven't received the daily digest regularly for the last
<BR>> two weeks and am wondering if there is anything wrong?
<BR>
<BR>Some would consider that a blessing</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Times New Roman" LANG="0">
<BR>....Ralph? Sign me, Lightning Rod </FONT></HTML>
--part1_108.19a12df7.2ae177e0_boundary--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 16:51:38 +0000
From: Johnette Davies <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cotswald cottage
If I remember correctly, the Cotswald Cottage is actually parts of about 5
different buildings all put together in one.
- Johnette
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:38:39 -0700
> From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Grave Repairs
>
> Ken, Is that the little stone house that was sent from away across the
> pond with every stone numbered so they reassembled it exactly as it was
> before? I love that little cottage. I still remember it from when I was
> there in 1952. But I have been back once, but I already told you all about
> that adventure. Ruth
>
>
>
> At 2:07 PM -0400 10/16/02, Ken Follett wrote:
> In a message dated 10/10/2002 7:09:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> Always willing to look at a broken or fallen stone, or at least talk about it.
>
>
>
> David,
>
> We need more talk of fallen stone. Last week met a quite interesting
> stonemason from UK working on Cotswold stonework at Dearborn. Hope to get
> him interested in PTN Masonry Committee.
>
> ][<en
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:03:59 -0700
From: martin skrelunas <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Cotswald cottage
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The Cottswald Cottage is probably one of the first buildings to spark my imagination and interest in architecture. I was probably about 8 years old and had never seen anything like it in my life. All of Greenfield Village was awsome. Of course I am from Michigan and had never seen an old building anyplace. That experience ultimately played into the course of life that brought me to the East where I work on Moderns! Go Figure!
With Windex in hand,
Marty
Johnette Davies <[log in to unmask]> wrote: If I remember correctly, the Cotswald Cottage is actually parts of about 5
different buildings all put together in one.
- Johnette
>
> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:38:39 -0700
> From: Ruth Barton
> Subject: Re: Grave Repairs
>
> Ken, Is that the little stone house that was sent from away across the
> pond with every stone numbered so they reassembled it exactly as it was
> before? I love that little cottage. I still remember it from when I was
> there in 1952. But I have been back once, but I already told you all about
> that adventure. Ruth
>
>
>
> At 2:07 PM -0400 10/16/02, Ken Follett wrote:
> In a message dated 10/10/2002 7:09:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
> Always willing to look at a broken or fallen stone, or at least talk about it.
>
>
>
> David,
>
> We need more talk of fallen stone. Last week met a quite interesting
> stonemason from UK working on Cotswold stonework at Dearborn. Hope to get
> him interested in PTN Masonry Committee.
>
> ][>
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
Martin Skrelunas
[log in to unmask]
P.O. Box 184
New Canaan, Ct 06840
ph.:203.966.4483 / fax:203.972.1767
---------------------------------
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--0-1262515890-1034967839=:9452
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<P>The Cottswald Cottage is probably one of the first buildings to spark my imagination and interest in architecture. I was probably about 8 years old and had never seen anything like it in my life. All of Greenfield Village was awsome. Of course I am from Michigan and had never seen an old building anyplace. That experience ultimately played into the course of life that brought me to the East where I work on Moderns! Go Figure!
<P>With Windex in hand,
<P>Marty
<P> <B><I>Johnette Davies <[log in to unmask]></I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">If I remember correctly, the Cotswald Cottage is actually parts of about 5<BR>different buildings all put together in one.<BR><BR>- Johnette<BR><BR>><BR>> Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:38:39 -0700<BR>> From: Ruth Barton <[log in to unmask]><BR>> Subject: Re: Grave Repairs<BR>><BR>> Ken, Is that the little stone house that was sent from away across the<BR>> pond with every stone numbered so they reassembled it exactly as it was<BR>> before? I love that little cottage. I still remember it from when I was<BR>> there in 1952. But I have been back once, but I already told you all about<BR>> that adventure. Ruth<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> At 2:07 PM -0400 10/16/02, Ken Follett wrote:<BR>> In a message dated 10/10/2002 7:09:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time,<BR>> [log in to unmask] writes:<BR>><BR>> Always willing to look at a broken or fallen stone, or at least talk about it.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> David,<BR>><BR>> We need more talk of fallen stone. Last week met a quite interesting<BR>> stonemason from UK working on Cotswold stonework at Dearborn. Hope to get<BR>> him interested in PTN Masonry Committee.<BR>><BR>> ][<EN<BR>><BR><BR>--<BR>To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the<BR>uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:<BR><HTTP: bullamanka-pinheads.html archives maelstrom.stjohns.edu></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Martin Skrelunas<br>[log in to unmask]<br>P.O. Box 184<br>New Canaan, Ct 06840<br>ph.:203.966.4483 / fax:203.972.1767<p><br><hr size=1>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a href="http://faith.yahoo.com">Faith Hill</a> - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more<br>
<a href="http://faith.yahoo.com">faith.yahoo.com</a>
--0-1262515890-1034967839=:9452--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 20:07:12 -0500
From: John Callan <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Stifling discussion? Or....
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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It would be a shame if Preservation-L were to die. It is a resource and may be
somewhat easier for people who are in need of help with preservation to find.
I suppose I should post something there and stir things up a bit.
But its so hard to stay serious for the required amount of discourse.
Maybe we could post a communal "mia culpa" and they'd take us back for a little
while. The presense of a bunch of pinheads would certainly breath new life into
the list.
-jc
Ruth Barton wrote:
> Ken, I have nothing to do, directly, with historic preservation. I own a
> cleaning service. I'm not sure how I dropped into this list, I think from
> the preservation list--which someone pointed out is just about DEAD. I
> think I got on that one through the Old House list.
>
> This is the BEST list I am on because we talk about EVERYTHING on here. I
> am also on several genealogy lists and they are so narrow in focus that the
> most active list member could drop dead and it would never be mentioned on
> the list. I hate that but have to put up with it because I need the info
> that is there.
>
> I love you guys and gals even if you do live in large population centers
> that I will most likely never visit. Ruth
>
> At 2:07 PM -0400 10/16/02, Ken Follett wrote:
> >Sharpshooter,
> >
> >Good questions, and not new. These questions have been brought up since when
> >BP originated.
> >
> >The way I see the one-liners or off-topic community building is that we have
> >a steady hum that keeps the list active and interspersed we have shots of an
> >"on-topic" signal. The jibes and jokes and chatter build context, granted, a
> >flow of gibberish that some outside of the list, or more self-contained in
> >their lives, may find off putting. I find it cumbersome at times to wade
> >through -- then again, I tend to encourage it, I think for good reason...
> >though I am open to discussion. I've spent a good deal of time in wonder
> >trying to figure out how BP works. Beats me!
> --
> Ruth Barton
> [log in to unmask]
> Westminster, VT
>
> --
> To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
> uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
> <http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
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End of BULLAMANKA-PINHEADS Digest - 18 Oct 2002 to 19 Oct 2002 (#2002-281)
**************************************************************************
--
To terminate puerile preservation prattling among pals and the
uncoffee-ed, or to change your settings, go to:
<http://maelstrom.stjohns.edu/archives/bullamanka-pinheads.html>
|
