I absolutely agree with you regarding the children, Kat. SOMEONE had to have seen that this woman was not well! You don't just wake up psychotic one morning! It is usually a much more insidious decline. And she had to be off meds for each pregnancy. Where were the docs and her husband then?! Something is just not right here. 

I have watched people become completely different people when off their medications. What seems bizarre to anyone else becomes completely reasonable and true to them. Fortunately most people in psychosis do not harm others. I believe that IF Andrea Yates WAS psychotic, and IF she believed she was acting to protect  her children and "save" them, that belief was as real to her at that time as the belief that the sky is blue. And in that state it could have been the most logical and loving thing for her to do to drown her children. Psychosis has to be the most frightening thing I could imagine. I think you are right, Mike. it is difficult to understand the reality of mental illness unless you have lived it or know someone who has.

Yvonne
(Who has been very verbose today - sorry!)

>>> [log in to unmask] 03/18/02 04:19PM >>>
I agree, and that's why I think I'm being harsh in the Yates case.  I know the pain Jenn's going through because I've been there, but as for the pain of dealing with a family member who is mentally ill, I don't have that experience.  I just wish the doctors and husband had been better-prepared to deal with Andrea Yates; there might have been five children still alive.  I just can't help but think about the kids. Who were their advocates?

Kat




"St. John's University Cerebral Palsy List" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> You can only know pain if you've felt pain.  I was going to send this link
to Jenn, but it seems to apply here too:

The gentleman on this RealAudio clip lives with intractible pain, and speaks
of only being able to relate to others who have chronic pain.  I think the
same can be said for the mental illnesses as well.

Jenn Zubko, this is for you, hon:

http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/atc/20020313.atc.14.ram 

-Kyle

-----Original Message-----
From: Yvonne Craig [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2002 3:39 PM
To: [log in to unmask] 
Subject: Yates' case


As a mental health professional, I was shocked by what I have heard about =
the whole case. I have heard she was suffering from post-partum depression =
and other reports that she has schizophrenia (two vastly different =
diagnoses with different treatments but with some common features) - I =
don't know which is true. I also heard that on the advice of her doctor =
her meds were stopped. If she was psychotic from either of those conditions=
 and unmedicated, I cannot imagine how she was found guilty.  There seems =
to be this misconception that a psychotic person is automatically =
disorganized and therefore would be unable to "methodically" carry out the =
killings. This is just not true. This is a horrific tragedy and I feel for =
the children and the family, but if she was psychotic at the time, she =
should not be held responsible for her actions legally. Her doctor should =
be held criminally responsible for not providing appropriate treatment and =
follow-up. Thank God she didn't receive the death penalty!=20

The way I see it, she was convicted based on misconceptions and biases =
against those disabled by mental illness. JMHO.

Yvonne


>>> Salkin Kathleen  03/17/02 10:38AM >>>
Sorry t0 bring back a painful topic (which was discussed a few months =
ago).
As I read about the testimonies of the doctors and families in the Andrea
Yates case, I was wondering who was worrying about the kids during all =
this?
I wasn't too surprised at the guilty verdict, and even agreed with the =
life
imprisonment sentence, but I surely do hope someone in Texas starts an
inquiry into the professionalism of the psychiatrists involved in Yates'
case. Yes, I do think she is guilty, but I also think her doctors and =
family
were negligent in not considering her kids or trying to protect them.
Perhaps I'm being too harsh, I don't know.  The senseless deaths of the
children have tended to do that to me.


Kat
----- Original Message -----
From: "Betty B"
To:
Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 10:10 AM
Subject: Re: Ill, Ariz Towns Seek Accessibility


> In a message dated 3/17/2002 7:39:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>
> > Adults can be vocal for themselves and are
> > many more in number than these smallest ones of
> > humanity who has no voice but ours.
> > Joanne
> >
>
> This is a topic of potentially protracted discussion for me.  Suffice it
to
> say that you're words aren't wasted on me and I am in your camp.
> Betty