On Thu, 30 May 2002, Jim Swayze wrote:

>  It does make sense to me that grassfed, non-hormone-laced,
>  non-homogenized, non-whatever-else-they-do-to-milk-cows-in-2002 milk might
>  be less a source of foreign proteins than supermarket milk.  But perhaps
>  that's not true and the quality of the protein itself isn't affected by
>  our modern dairy methods vis a vis natural, grassfed cattle.

According to the foreign protein theory, it's the *identity* of
those proteins that matters, and I don't see a reason to think
supermarket milk is different in that respect.

>  Todd > Okinawa (rice, noodles).  The Tarahumara Indians of South America
>  subsist mainly on corn and beans.  See
>  http://www.rice.edu/~jenky/sports/Insulin.athlete.html for example.
>
>  Thanks for those cites.  Again -- like milk from grassfed cattle -- rice,
>  and beans are lesser offending substances.

It's odd that beans would be lesser offenders, since they are a
concentrated source of lectins.  But the noodles that are also a
staple of Japanese and Okinawan diets are often made of wheat
flour, too.

>  Corn is a killer, though.  But
>  since we're not removing the outer husk (the germ?), it's not as bad as it
>  could be if we were to do to it what we've done to wheat to create white
>  flour.  The husk slows absorption of bad proteins.

Actually, when we refine wheat flour, we *reduce* its protein
content, since much of the protein is in the wheat germ.  But in
any case, if the foreign protein theory is correct, the rate at
which the foreign proteins are introduced should not be a
critical variable, since it's what happens when they get in that
is supposed to matter.  The Tarahumara are eating large amounts
of corn and beans, but have very low rates of heart disease.  If
we follow the evidence without prejudice, this should tell us
that it's not the foreign proteins in corn and beans that are
causing heart disease.

>  Todd > Heart disease rates have gone up without an obvious increase in
>  consumption of foreign proteins.  This means that consumption of foreign
>  proteins explains little or none of the increase in heart disease.
>
>  Perhaps on paper we are consuming the same SOURCES of foreign protein
>  during the period that heart disease has gone up.  (Perhaps not.  What
>  about the increase in the use of frankenfats?)

I don't disagree with the claim that frankenfats are one of the
important causes of heart disease.

>  But you're forgetting one
>  important factor: Because of the way we process foods, we've given those
>  foreign proteins much quicker access to the body.  A good example is the
>  fact that we're now eating a lot more white flour than wheat flour.  The
>  roughage in wheat flour makes it more slowly absorbed by the body, so with
>  wheat flour you get a much less efficient movement of offending proteins
>  into the bloodstream.  In other words, not only does this extra processing
>  of flour affect insulin levels, how quickly the body can convert the flour
>  to glucose, it affects the level of foreign proteins in our system as
>  well.

But the foreign protein theory, according to Ray, says that
introducing even small amounts of the proteins into the system
causes disproportionate reactions, not a "dose-response" curve.

>  From a health standpoint, there's a step down from true paleo to including
>  rice, beans, corn, milk to your diet.  Can you cite anyone who's
>  mainlining processed foods?  That's the next step down -- a big one
>  --where I believe you'll really see the heart disease rates jump.

I agree.  But the difference between the first step and the
second is not the presence or absence of foreign proteins.  It's
the use of frankenfats, sweeteners, refined ingredients, and
additives.  Since these are the marks of 20th century food,
there's your smoking gun for heart disease.

>  Again, it's not even close to being clear to me that foreign proteins
>  don't cause heart disease.

I don't know what would make it clearer.  The theory predicts
that the Tarahumara should be dropping like flies from their
high-carb, corn and bean based diet.  But they are
extraordinarily healthy.

Todd Moody
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