Greetings :)
The folks I haven't found many of are the long-term vegetarians who
are in excellent health. Finding long-term true vegetarians isn't
hard around here, but not a one I've met (I would guess that I've
knowingly met about a dozen or so) is in excellent health.
I should add that most of these long-term true vegetarians I've met
are over 40 years old, so that's probably a factor in their lack of
health. I've also met many a teenager who lives on nothing but candy,
Big Macs, and Mountain Dew and yet is in what appears to be radiant
health. A young body is often quite forgiving of dietary insults.
Carol
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Raw Food Diet Support List
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of orestes
> gutierrez
> Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 10:18 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Another success story & sugar cravings
>
>
> <html><div style='background-color:'><DIV>
> <P>Greetings Carol,</P>
> <P>Dr. Spock reference is soon to come. Although I
> agree with you in saying that you cannot take to the word
> of one authority figure as "gospel".</P>
> <P>What is more important to me, even more so than
> "numbers", is the living truth. I have been a
> vegeterian for about 5 years and my wife for about 15
> years. We are both in excellent health. In my
> lifetime, I have met many a vegeterian and all seem quite
> healthy. Just because you have never met longtime
> "true" vegeterians doesn't mean they are not out
> there. YOu are just looking in the wrong
> places. Try looking at the health food store
> near you, ashrams the world over, on the internet, etc.</P>
> <P>Regards,ORestes.<BR><BR></P></DIV>
> <DIV></DIV>
> <DIV></DIV>>From: Carol <[log in to unmask]>
> <DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: Raw Food Diet Support List
> <[log in to unmask]>
> <DIV></DIV>>To: [log in to unmask]
> <DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: Another success story &
> sugar cravings
> <DIV></DIV>>Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 06:32:01 -0800
> <DIV></DIV>>
> <DIV></DIV>>In what book did Dr. Spock say that the
> optimum diet for children is
> <DIV></DIV>>vegetarianism? Could we have either some
> direct quotes or references
> <DIV></DIV>>(title, year, page #) so that we can find
> them ourselves? I don't
> <DIV></DIV>>believe that Spock is the be-all end-all of
> pediatric authorities, and
> <DIV></DIV>>even if he did say those things, it isn't
> very meaningful to me. I
> <DIV></DIV>>just have my doubts.
> <DIV></DIV>>
> <DIV></DIV>>And as for the statement that there are
> "millions upon millions of
> <DIV></DIV>>healthy vegetarians worldwide", I would have
> to say that numbers like
> <DIV></DIV>>that have to rely on self-reporting, and I
> never trust self-reported
> <DIV></DIV>>vegetarianism anymore. Most healthy
> "vegetarians" I know are either
> <DIV></DIV>>new to it (in which case, they probably
> haven't had time to run into
> <DIV></DIV>>deficiencies) or, when pressed as to their
> diet, they say something
> <DIV></DIV>>like, "Oh yeah, well of course I eat fish.
> That's not meat." IMHO,
> <DIV></DIV>>that's just plain stupid, but there are
> sooooo many of these fake
> <DIV></DIV>>vegetarians out there! And in my experience,
> like I said, it's the
> <DIV></DIV>>fakers and the newbies who seem the healthiest.
> <DIV></DIV>>
> <DIV></DIV>>Carol
> <DIV></DIV>>
> <DIV></DIV>>
> <DIV></DIV>>
> <DIV></DIV>> > -----Original Message-----
> <DIV></DIV>> > From: Raw Food Diet Support List
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of orestes
> <DIV></DIV>> > gutierrez
> <DIV></DIV>> > Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 5:35 AM
> <DIV></DIV>> > To: [log in to unmask]
> <DIV></DIV>> > Subject: Re: Another success story
> & sugar cravings
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV>
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <P>Greetings to ALL!</P></DIV>> >
> <P>Let me interject. Milton K's ideas of diet are
> <DIV></DIV>> > BOGUS! IT IS NOT MANDATORY FOR
> CHILDREN TO EAT
> <DIV></DIV>> > FLESH! The late, world renowned
> authority on
> <DIV></DIV>> > childrens health, Dr. Spock, said that
> the optimum diet for
> <DIV></DIV>> > children is vegeterianism.
> Also, he said that
> <DIV></DIV>> > after the age of 2 yo children could be VEGAN!
> <P></P>
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <P>On a different note. I only care about what my
> <DIV></DIV>> > ancestors did 50, 000 years ago as a
> historic and
> <DIV></DIV>> > intellectual excercise. Just
> because they ate flesh
> <DIV></DIV>> > doesn't mean we should eat
> flesh. More importantly,
> <DIV></DIV>> > what matter is the current
> PRESENT. There are
> <DIV></DIV>> > millions upon millions of healthy
> vegeterians worldwide
> <DIV></DIV>> > that proves humans can be healthy
> without flesh!
> <P></P>
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <P>As a side note, it is stated loud and clear in the
> <DIV></DIV>> > Essene Gospel of Peace by Jesus Christ
> that we should not
> <DIV></DIV>> > eat Animal Flesh. Furthermore,
> he states that we
> <DIV></DIV>> > should not put food to the fire and
> should eat live live
> <DIV></DIV>> > raw foods!
> <P></P>
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <P>Regards, Orestes.<BR><BR></P>
> <DIV></DIV>
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>From: Lance H <[log in to unmask]>
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>Reply-To: Raw Food Diet Support List
> <DIV></DIV>> > <[log in to unmask]>
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>To: [log in to unmask]
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>Subject: Re: Another success story &
> <DIV></DIV>> > sugar cravings
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 07:54:29 -0500
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>Let me clarify.
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>Milton K was NOT recommending a vegetarian
> <DIV></DIV>> > diet. Indeed, she is on record
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>as saying (1998) "I am not advocating a
> <DIV></DIV>> > vegetarian diet". She even wrote an
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>entire paper (1999) arguing that animal food
> <DIV></DIV>> > played an essential role in
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>human evolution and that "the routine
> <DIV></DIV>> > inclusion of animal foods in the diets
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>of weaned children seems mandatory".
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>I quoted her at length to prove that there
> <DIV></DIV>> > was no consensus amongst
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>scientists as to the actual percentage of
> <DIV></DIV>> > animal food in Homo's diet. Our
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>ancestors left Africa about 50 Ky ago, at
> <DIV></DIV>> > which time our evolution as a
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>species was largely complete. So the diet of
> <DIV></DIV>> > those of our ancestors who
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>migrated to high latitudes, on which
> <DIV></DIV>> > Cordain's 70% estimate was based, is
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>much less relevant than the diet of our
> <DIV></DIV>> > African ancestors who lived 50 Ky ago.
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>What do we know of the diet of our African
> <DIV></DIV>> > ancestors 50 Ky ago? Well, we
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>have the example of the present day !Kung
> <DIV></DIV>> > San, who eat 33% animal food. But
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>do they occupy their original lands? They do
> <DIV></DIV>> > not. In the past 2000 years
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>they have been driven to marginal lands by
> <DIV></DIV>> > Bantu-speaking farmers who have
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>seized the most fertile soils for their crops.
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>Is this push to marginal lands likely to
> <DIV></DIV>> > have increased or decreased the
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>San's intake of animal food? I do not know.
> <DIV></DIV>> > More fertile lands support
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>both a richer plant life and a more abundant
> <DIV></DIV>> > animal life. But we certainly
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>cannot deduce that it was 33%. In short, the
> <DIV></DIV>> > study of present-day
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>hunter-gatherers gives us insufficient data
> <DIV></DIV>> > from which to deduce the
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>proportion of animal food in Homo's
> <DIV></DIV>> > primitive diet. Milton's point was that
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>it is unsafe to draw conclusions.
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>Rick asks that we not "get picky with
> <DIV></DIV>> > percentages". But percentages are the
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>whole point. Our early ancestors almost
> <DIV></DIV>> > certainly ate SOME animal foods,
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>just like present-day apes & baboons.
> <DIV></DIV>> > The question is, how much and what?
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>Cordain makes a plausible case that early
> <DIV></DIV>> > man relied heavily on animal
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>brains and bone marrow, scavenged from the
> <DIV></DIV>> > leftovers of carnivores who
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>lacked the weaponry to crack open skulls and
> <DIV></DIV>> > large bones. Brains are high
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>in omega-3 fats and bone-marrow is high in
> <DIV></DIV>> > mono-unsaturated fat.
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>Fortunately, for those of us who do not
> <DIV></DIV>> > relish raw brains & marrow, our gut
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>is flexible enough to source the nutrients
> <DIV></DIV>> > elsewhere. I agree that this
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>would be difficult on a purely vegetarian
> <DIV></DIV>> > diet. I also agree that we can
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>thrive on 70% animal food. But I find no
> <DIV></DIV>> > scientific consensus that 70% is
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>either the dominant historical percentage or
> <DIV></DIV>> > the ideal one.
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>Cheers
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>>Lance
> <DIV></DIV>> >
> <DIV></DIV>
> <DIV></DIV><BR clear=all>
> <HR>
> STOP MORE SPAM with <A DIV <>> >
> href="http://g.msn.com/8HMKENUS/2728">the new MSN 8</A> and
> <DIV></DIV>> > get 2 months FREE*
> <DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>The new <a
> href="http://g.msn.com/8HMJENUS/2737">MSN 8:</a> smart spam
> protection and 2 months FREE* </html>
|
