Well Den, a lot of uris are gibberish so can we reach some sort of
compromise?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Denis Anson" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: HTML Title attribute


John,

Allow me to clarify.  I was saying that relying on Title is not a good
idea, because you can't count on it moving with a link, or even being
read by screen readers.  I am very much in favor of meaningful links.

In fact, it's generally considered a good idea for the link to be the
actual URL that you are linking to. Sometimes people will print a page
from the web onto paper (that flat stuff we used to rely on), and if
the link just says "Click Here" or even "more information about
elephants," its utility is lost.  Only if the actual link is displayed
can the printed document be helpful.

Denis


John Gardner wrote:


>There have been some interesting discussions in this thread suggesting
or
>speculating on alternate ways to make links accessible without it
having a
>meaningful text.  Dennis and Alan, I really object to anything that
depends
>on additional or special functionality for screen readers.  A screen
reader
>is a horribly complex piece of software, and our concern should be
>simplifying this software, not making it yet more complex.  The latter
path
>will inevitably make screen readers break even more than they do now.
>
>I accidentally deleted one suggestion - of using a graphic with a
>meaningful ALT tag.  In principle, this is a reasonable way to make
links
>when graphics are more accessible to sighted users.  Navigation maps for
>example can often be made more visually attractive and maybe even more
>useful with a graphic.  Using a graphic for no purpose other than
changing
>the displayed text seems to be asking for trouble.  In the same spirit
as
>making life easier for screen readers, we must also make sure we are not
>making life unnecessarily difficult for web masters who have to maintain
>sites.  Links evolve rapidly with time but graphics seem to be her
>forever.  Putting in a graphic for a link requires that the web master
>remember to change the alt text any time a link is changed.  I
discourage
>this kind of "access" for the same reason I oppose text only pages.  The
>special pages are never up to date.
>
>John
>
>At 08:14 AM 2/28/2003 -0500, Denis Anson wrote:
>>Alan,
>>
>>A couple of years ago, I did a survey of screen reader manufacturers,
>>and about half of the screen readers were able to read Title.  So,
>>while it may be useful in some cases, it certainly isn't "The answer."
>>
>>The *big* issue for access is those systems that make a list of links
>>external to a page, to facilitate navigation.  A long list of "Click
>>here." links doesn't help much.  It would be important, even when title
>>is supported, to know if the lists import the title attribute as well
>>as the text of a link, or these links would still be difficult to
>>navigate.
>>
>>Denis Anson
>>
>>
>>Alan Cantor wrote:
>>
>>
>> >Hello EASI Colleagues,
>> >
>> >What is the story on the HTML title attribute? How well is it
>>supported? I know title is not a panacea, but it does seem to have
>>potential for improving access to many previously inaccessible
>>elements.
>> >
>> >This question stems from a message I just received from a web master
>>who is dealing with content providers who insist that she use "click
>>here" for a mailto link. She is trying to work around this by using the
>>title attribute for the link. She writes:
>> >
>> >To me [click here] presents a problem. The link is not clear labeled;
>>it has no definite destination. In addition it is contrary to Guideline
>>13. Provide clear navigation mechanisms,
>> >
>> >checkpoint 13.1 Clearly identify the target of each link. [Priority 2]
>> >
>> >Link text should be meaningful enough to make sense when read out of
>>context-either on its own or as part of a sequence of links. Link text
>>should also be terse.
>> >
>> >For example, in HTML, write "Information about version 4.3" instead of
>>"click here". In additional to clear link text, content developers may
>>further clarify the target of a link with an informative link title
>>(e.g., in HTML, the "title" attribute).
>> >
>> >I tested the title attribute on a <<click here>> text link with the
>>trial version of JAWS. It does not read the title on this text link.
>> >
>> >If I [use the mouse to] put the focus in the table cell or near the
>>link where the link is using the title attribute, JAWS will read the
>>title.
>> >
>> >Regardless of focus JAWS does read the title attribute around a
graphic.
>> >
>> >What are your thoughts around the title attribute and how does it work
>>for users?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Alan Cantor
>> >Project Manager
>> >Strategic e-Government Implementation
>> >e-Government, OCCS
>> >416-212-1152
>> >[log in to unmask]
>> >
>>
>>--------------------
>>Denis Anson, MS, OTR
>>Assistant Professor
>>College Misericordia
>>301 Lake St.
>>Dallas, PA 18612
>>Phone: 570-674-6413
>
>John Gardner
>Professor and Director, Science Access Project
>Department of Physics
>Oregon State University
>Corvallis, OR 97331-6507
>tel: (541) 737 3278
>FAX: (541) 737 1683
>e-mail: [log in to unmask]
>URL: http://dots.physics.orst.edu
>

--------------------
Denis Anson, MS, OTR
Assistant Professor
College Misericordia
301 Lake St.
Dallas, PA 18612
Phone: 570-674-6413