Robert Ratliff:
> Is this a raw food diet support list?


Liza:
This is my fault. I introduced this off-topic subject, thinking it was
warranted because of the extraordinary times we are in.

Let me pose a question, which might make the (one might think "stretch,"
but actually not) connection between the war - and - raw food.

Please, anyone who can see this clearly, help me out here.

WHY do raw food types, organic simple-lifestyle, shun-materialism,
types, those who would have been in demonstrations to protest against
the WTO and globalization and now are in demonstrations to protest
military action, African-American-blacks in dreadlocks and those
colorful crocheted caps, and whites with natural hemp clothing flat
shoes and no make-up, lesbian-feminists, good union activists, lefty
poets and artists, and RAW FOODISTS  -   why is it that these people
want to band together in the streets to say "We protest the military
actions against Bin Ladens and those who shelter bin Laden?"

Why is this? I don't understand.

For those of you in France, Germany, UK, Singapore  ...  those
listmembers I've corresponded with privately and all you other countries
represented on this list ... maybe can you see this more clearly than
me? The "types" I've described above are American "types" - I don't know
if you outside America have equivalents in your countries.  But I'm
hoping that maybe with your outside-of-America clearer view perspective
you can maybe see more clearly the sociology of this to help me
understand.

It feels to me like there is some bit of arrogance or confusion
preventing people from seeing something here.

Is the problem just a "style" thing? Is this as simple a thing as simply
whether a person is wearing cotton clothing - or polyester? Or what
music they listen to? I don't want to think that people are actually out
in the streets communicating a message to the world - and it's all based
on something as superficial as style.

Or, an even darker view, maybe this  "style" is actually the non-verbal
expression of a philosophy? If that is the case, then I guess I would
have to say goodbye to many old friends and loves. And goodbye to a
lifetime of devotion and commitment to leftist causes.

It feels to me that there is some very fundamental disagreement here,
and I can't quite wrap my brain around it. Or define it even.

It seems to me that the current threat is a movement against modernism
in our world  --  modern meaning the world of secularism and that
utterly new-in-human-history brave and radical focus on the importance
of separation of church and state.  That this movement and attack is
coming from a culture which is 600 years behind every other religion and
culture, and is based on a defensive, fundamentalist literal
interpretation of 1,000-year-old texts. No coincidence maybe that the
same black-and-white, no grey area, no room for interpretation thus no
room for doubt rigid reliance on literal meaning of text dogma  --  that
this very same type of dogma might be attractive to those here in the
United  States and elsewhere who have that same need and longing - the
longing for simple, black-and-white, good-and-evil, clearly defined
answers to human questions.

Namely,  in our case here on our list,  food.

I don't know.

I'm tired, having some sort of crisis here. I'm tired, going to bed.
Maybe it's time for me to leave this list, and other purist,
fundamentalist enclaves. I've always been proud of being a "purist." I
think I have suddenly, finally, grown up.