Mr. Dampha,

I must commend your vigilance against Yaya's apologists.  Mr. Jeng's
reference to this forum as a "so-called anti-jammeh forum" is a sinister
attempt to discredit those who stand for the truth and justice.  I for one
do not see this forum as anti-Jammeh the person, but one in which decent
people who abhor the violence, corruption, repression and incompetence going
on in beloved country, speak out against these evils.

The PPP's shortcomings pale in comparison to the havoc these people have
done in the past seven years. No amount of ill-concieved/ political
show-case projects can ligitimize this murderous bunch.

They forced themselves onto the Gambian people and have been unequivocally
rejected.  Yaya and the APRC MUST GO!

Keep up the good work.

Lamin Jeng


>From: Dampha Kebba <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
><[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Answers to part1 questions
>Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:01:57 -0400
>
>Jeng, I wonder when you will come out of your closet and admit that you are
>a Yaya supporter. No one will kill you. Unlike Yaya, we in the Opposition
>do
>not hold a gun to people's head forcing them to believe in garbage. Why
>don't you quit being a hypocrite and show your true colors and address
>people directly?
>
>I will address your gibberish in chronological order, so excuse me if I
>sound a little disjointed. You were all over the place. First of all, I do
>not know where you took a poll and determined that "there are many on this
>so-called anti-Jammeh forum who seem to be nodding their heads in agreement
>to some of your [Kebba Jobe's] points". Emphasis mine. How many G_L
>subscribers did you see nodding their heads? Granted this might be a figure
>of speech. The best way to determine whether 'many' in this forum are in
>agreement with Jobe, is to check the archives to see how many people wrote
>to support Jobe's position. By my counting, you are the only one so far
>that
>seem to think that Yaya's 'projects' is a suitable substitute for the lives
>of our children. That is Jobe's premise; otherwise why would he want to
>perpetuate a child murderer and a thieve? So, please give us the figures
>about Jobe's and your support on this forum.
>
>I do not pretend to speak for Saul Khan, but I will say this. According to
>my reading, Saul did not say that Jobe was credible per se. What Saul said
>was that Jobe, unlike Essa Sey, was at least putting his case across in
>coherent language. That is very far from saying that Jobe is credible or
>his
>arguments are honest and sensible. According to my dictionary, 'credible'
>means: capable of being believed; deserving confidence. Is this what you
>think Saul was saying? Again, I don't speak for Saul, but I believe Saul is
>not naïve to believe Jobe when Jobe says that he supports Yaya because of
>these 'projects'. We all know that Jobe's loyalty is motivated by greed,
>cowardice and ignorance. His loyalty has nothing to do with these
>'projects'. Would Jobe substitute these 'projects' for his children? That
>is
>exactly what Jobe was saying when he said that he supports Yaya despite the
>atrocities committed against our people.
>
>You also said that "the lamest arguments put forward is to call these
>projects stolen Jawara projects, or even to disingenuously down play the
>significance of these projects". Why did you not have the guts to address
>me
>directly when I said that these were stolen projects from the Jawara
>regime?
>If the argument is lame, why didn't you or Jobe debunk the argument by
>showing that these were not stolen projects? Are you trying to say that the
>AFPRC/APRC invented these projects? Explain why you think the argument is
>lame. This argument goes to the heart of APRC's dishonest claim for the
>credit of recent developments in Gambia. You people want to pretend that
>you
>are Gambia's saviors. Yaya is a genius that thought about all these
>projects
>and got money from God to finance the projects. You think it is 'lame' to
>debunk that myth? Well, tell us why it is 'lame'. Tell us what Yaya's input
>is in these 'projects'. Remember that Yaya and all the civil servants
>working for him were educated by the PPP. Gambia did not start in the past
>seven years.
>
>Can you also enlighten us again about the reason AFPRC stole power from a
>democratically elected government. I hope you are right that that is the
>best argument APRC has. Because if that is the case, the Opposition is
>guaranteed a sure victory in October. In case you did not notice, Yaya is
>not running against PPP. You guys can dwell all you want in the past. That
>will not change the facts as they unfold during Yaya's tenure. You spoke
>about lame arguments. Is it logical to you that APRC open a debate on
>corruption of the Jawara regime? That was one of the claimed reasons for
>the
>coup. Yaya is lot more corrupt than Jawara. In less than seven years, he
>stole more from our people than the whole Jawara regime stole in thirty
>years. Let us talk about corruption.
>
>Does it also make sense to you if your side bring up the issue of nepotism;
>another claimed reason for the coup? Tell us what Ousman Badjie, Famara
>Jatta, Sankung Badjie, Babucarr Jatta, John Bojang, Susan Waffa have in
>common.
>
>Does it also make sense for the APRC supporters to talk about development
>of
>our people when their own statistics show that Gambians have grown poorer
>under Yaya's watch? I think you are confused.
>
>It is insulting to certain Opposition members for characters like you to
>pretend that you are part of the Opposition. Keep convincing yourself. We
>know better. In light of Yaya's record, Jawara's record is very defensible.
>I am even surprised that we do not have real PPP people coming out here to
>challenge the low-lives that stole power from them and always distort their
>record. Because I am and was not a PPP supporter, I would have preferred
>for
>the PPP to come out and fight their own battle. But if we do not have that,
>I will not stand by and watch vermin like you lie about the PPP record in
>order to perpetuate Yaya. What did people defend about the PPP record that
>is indefensible? Why do you keep throwing out rhetoric you cannot back up?
>Why don't you debunk specifics I have defended on the PPP record?
>
>I will take this opportunity to respectfully appeal to the PPP people to
>come out and take on the Musa Jengs and the Kebba Jobes of this world.
>Rather than attacking me both on G_L and outside G_L for describing PPP
>militants as meek for not fighting Decree 89 in a certain way; rather than
>PPP people attacking Ebou Colly behind the scenes for saying some
>self-evident truths about the Jawara regime, PPP people should come out and
>defend their record and their integrity. Me and Colly are not the enemy of
>PPP. The enemies are the low-lives that stole power from PPP and the vermin
>that peddle lies about the PPP record in order to perpetuate Yaya.
>
>As I said, the PPP record is defensible. Certainly lot more defensible than
>the AFPRC/APRC record. Musa Jeng will just be exhibiting his hypocrisy if
>he
>abuses a government that schooled him and gave him a job that was taken
>away
>from him by Yaya and his cohorts. The man will just be exhibiting his
>foolishness if he supports a government that forced him to become an
>economic refugee after he had decided to go home for good and was provided
>with a conducive environment by the PPP; an environment where he had a job
>and was free to earn a decent living and build up a family. If he wants to
>show ingratitude to PPP and worship APRC that tormented him, PPP should not
>allow Jeng to do so at their expense. PPP should defend itself from the
>Jengs of this world.
>
>PPP should not be afraid that Yaya and his cohorts will accuse them of
>corruption or nepotism. As pointed out earlier, these vices are more rife
>in
>our society nowadays. How can Yaya accuse OJ of corruption? OJ can just
>point out that he lived at his father's home with his whole family for
>several years he was a minister. Yaya on the other hand built a
>multi-million dalasi mansion in Kanilai less than five years after stealing
>power. Where did Yaya get the money from? Where did Famara Jatta get the
>money he is using to build a mansion back home? Is this not the same type
>of
>crap that was used against the PPP people? 'Where could you afford to build
>a house after working for thirty years'? Was this not the sick rationale of
>those Asset Evaluation kangaroo courts? These vermin are achieving these
>feats (building a mansion) in six years. They are building more flamboyant
>houses, not to mention other corrupt activities like the abuse of
>government
>travel allowances. These low-lives have nothing against PPP.
>
>How can the Gambian economy in its current state be Yaya's best argument
>for
>re-election? What has Jeng been smoking? Did he not read Famara Jatta's
>budget? Is this man ignorant about the plight of our farmers (overwhelming
>majority of Gambians)? Does Jeng not know about the rampant corruption in
>our country? How many of Jeng;s family and friends are employed by the
>government? Does Jeng know what a bag of rice cost in The Gambia of 2001?
>Has Jeng been following the deterioration of the dalasi? What is wrong with
>this man? He is unsympathetic to the regime that brought him up and gave
>him
>all he got. He turns around and support a regime that kills innocent and
>defenseless children and make our people poorer and sends him to exile.
>
>When he talks about corruption in the Jawara regime, he is sure about what
>he is saying, but when he talks about corruption in the Yaya regime, he
>starts speaking in vague terms as 'allegations'. To Jeng, the proof about
>Yaya's involvement in the 'Crude Oil Sacndal' does not mean a thing. But
>when it comes to Yaya's lies about Jawara's crude oil deal, what Yaya is
>saying is the gospel truth and is enough proof for Jeng. Forget the court
>documents in Yaya's case. Just rely on Yaya's word in Jawara's case. Does
>this make sense? Did Jeng ask himself why Yaya stopped talking about
>Jawara's crude oil case? I will tell Jeng. Yaya stopped because his
>investigators were stopped on their tracks. They went to Central Bank to
>investigate and saw transparent and authentic documents showing where all
>the proceeds to the deal went. Contrast that with the low-life Jeng
>supports
>now. The vermin will not even permit an investigation despite that we have
>court records showing that Yaya was deeply involved in some dubious
>dealings. Do these vermin have anything to say to PPP?
>
>Jeng is upset about PPP corruption so much so that he believes that PPP is
>indefensible and do not deserve to rule. Yet the same Jeng wants child
>murderers to rule us. What is wrong with the Musa Jengs and the Kebba Jobes
>of this world. Is cowardice and misguided principles enough justification
>for the callousness of these people? No amount of pretense will make us
>regard you as decent human beings who are part of the Opposition against
>Yaya. You are better off sticking to your boy (Yaya). At least if you show
>your true colors no one will say that you are a hypocrite.
>KB
>
>
>
>>From: Musa Jeng <[log in to unmask]>
>>Reply-To: The Gambia and related-issues mailing list
>><[log in to unmask]>
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: Answers to part1 questions
>>Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:33:12 -0400
>>
>>Mr.Jobe:
>>
>>Surprising as it may sound, I believe there are many on this so-called
>>anti-Jammeh forum who seem to be
>>nodding their heads in agreement to some of your points. Like Saul Khan, I
>>honestly believe that you are one
>>of the few AFPRC supporters who have really put across a credible case. In
>>fact, the more I read some of the
>>rebuttal, specifically to the AFPRC’ s projects the more it gives credence
>>to your argument. The lamest
>>arguments put forward is to call these projects stolen Jawara projects, or
>>even to disingenuously down play
>>the significance of these projects. I am convince that the motivation that
>>led to these projects was more
>>political than love of country, but nonetheless the AFPRC deserve credit
>>for pursuing these projects. It is
>>also very fascinating that the best argument the AFPRC has is the reason
>>for the removal of the Jawara
>>Administration, and anytime a direct comparison is made, I found myself
>>agreeing with you. To the opposition,
>>myself included, we become very vulnerable and even troubling to be
>>defending an indefensible Jawara
>>Administration, or even to suggest that whatever transpired is tolerable
>>and should be forgotten, in order to
>>help us focus against Jammeh.
>>
>>  Mr. Jobe, touting the AFPRC projects has become your best argument, and
>>comparing Jammeh’s economic program
>>in comparison to Jawara still gives you a strong case to make. Corruption
>>was one of the strongest
>>single-issue used as the justification to bring an end to the Jawara
>>Administration. How would you react to
>>allegations that Jammeh has become one of the richest leaders in the
>>African sphere? He is involved in lots
>>of investment opportunities in the Gambia. And Eventhough, Gambia has
>>serious economic challenges, Mr. Jammeh
>>acquired a plane, and he seems to be directly linked with the business
>>tycoons in the country.  There are
>>allegations that Jawara might have tolerated corruption in his
>>Administration, but Jammeh is directly involve
>>with some of these activities that pose serious long term problems to the
>>country. In addition, what would
>>you tell some of the seriously disappointed coup supporters, who were
>>interested in developmental projects,
>>political stability, preservation of individual rights, independent
>>judiciary, an end to corruption, and a
>>new beginning to a new Gambia full of hope and stability. And Mr.Jobe, no
>>matter how convincing the project
>>argument is there is more to a promising Gambia than the same old
>>justification.
>>
>>The other single issue that even people who disagree with the Jawara
>>Administration, in a way missed is that
>>semblance of democracy, fair play, non-government intervention, not
>>getting
>>school children shot at and
>>killed, and the absence of musical chairs in the civil and public service.
>>The Jawara era argument is, yes we
>>did not build schools, but we did not murder kids either, and we
>>definitely
>>believed in the rule of law.
>>I look forward to your comments to the issues raised.
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Musa Jeng
>>
>>
>>saul khan wrote:
>>
>> > Mr. Jobe,
>> >
>> > I just finished reading your second submission, and your answers to
>>some
>>of
>> > the questions posed. I have to apologize for some of the typos, and
>> > grammatical errors in my posting yesterday. I was racing against time
>>for a
>> > meeting, while trying to eat lunch. I do have a few more concerns, and
>> > questions about your Part 1, but I wouldn't want to disturb your flow
>>at
>> > this point. Do keep your presentation coming.
>> >
>> > Again, I thank you for putting up a strong defence of the APRC regime.
>>I
>> > sincerely believe that as long as we keep these exchanges frank, our
>>nation
>> > will be the better for it. Needless to say, some of us find it
>>impossible to
>> > understand how any intelligent person can support Yaya Jammeh, but your
>> > rationale for doing just that, is helping us understand what goes on in
>>the
>> > "brains" behind the APRC regime. I don't think your task is by any
>>means
>> > easy, but your courage to attempt a rationalization of your support for
>>the
>> > APRC is commendable. And I sincerely commend you for that.
>> >
>> > On the questions I posed, you haven't answered most of them at all. But
>> > reading through, I have a feeling that you're a little hard-pressed for
>> > time, and like I said, I don't want to side track you with anything. As
>> > absurd as I find your reasons for supporting the regime, I believe you
>> > deserve a chance to present your story fully. For that reason, I'll
>>hold
>> > back my questions, and concerns, and give you the chance to present
>>your
>> > case in it's entirety. I'll then re-phrase the questions I posed, point
>>out
>> > anomalies I detect, and we can take it from there. This, of course has
>>no
>> > bearing on what other members here want to do. It's a free-for-all
>>afterall.
>> >
>> > Do let us know when you're done with your submission, so those of us
>>who
>> > want to restrain ourselves until you've had your say, can present our
>> > rebuttal. I again hope for your sake that people like Tombong would
>>jump
>>in
>> > to add to some of the good points you've made. I have my fingers
>>crossed
>>for
>> > that. Thanks again for your efforts.
>> >
>> > Good day!
>> >
>> > Saul.
>> >
>> > In part1 of "why I can support the APRC government despite...", I made
>>it
>> > very clear in the last paragraph of the intro that, as well as
>>explaining
>> > why I can still support the APRC government despite all that has been
>>said
>> > about it, I will also explain WHY NONE OF THE EXISTING OPPOSITION
>>PARTIES
>> > HAS ANY CHANCE OF BEATING THE APRC COME THE NEXT ELECTIONS. For that
>>reason
>> > I will refrain from answering some of the questions that are asked or
>>may be
>> > asked until then.
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
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