On Fri, 27 Oct 2000 15:58:01 -0400, Wally Ballou <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

>On Fri, 27 Oct 2000 02:28:41 -0400 Amadeus Schmidt <[log in to unmask]>
>writes:
>
>> There are only two kinds of essential fats:
>> alpha-linoleic acid (LA)and alpha-linolenic acid (LNA).
>> Both are readily available from plants.

>WHAT plants?  Plants that would have been available to Lucy and her
>predecessors in the right combinations, or plants the YOU can obtain and
>eat through the intervention of advanced technology and VERY careful
>selection based on scientific knowledge?

Name *any* plant and very probable you'll see a very favourable composition
of fats therein (Same in wild game).
I don't think you'll need any technology or special knowledge to get them.
Many plants are rather low in fat (1% fat) and so youl'll have to eat
higher amounts to get your grams of LA and LNA for hormonal and structural
usage.
There are a couple of high fat plants with an unfavourable w6 to w3 ratio.
Like safflor or sesame. Most plants (like the wild game living on *them*)
show adequate amounts of even LNA.

Lucy's favourite essential fat source? Nuts.

>> Protein consists of 21 amino acids of which 9 are essential.
>> All of these are readily available from plants.
>> What was your point about animal protein?
>
>Again, define "readily" in the context of Lucy's environment and lack of
>technology...

Readily available means, whichever natural plant you eat, if you reach a
medium caloric intake, you reach a proper protein amount.
Even with fruit. Even with the sweeter (higher caloric) fruit of today.
You needed enormous amounts to be satieted. The former frutarians on the
list may tell. But you reach nearly RDA with it, and RDA has a safety
factor.
Former fruitarians reported to have encountered other health problems
though. I wouldn't buy the fruitarian story for homo sapiens.

Adequate protein is true for animals too, of course. Did i doubt it?
I do assume animal consumption even for hominoids like Lucy, but not for
necessity, for opportunity.

>
>The bottom line is that the human animal is not a vegetarian, ...

I just try to be a vegetarian while adopting paleolithic nutrition concepts.
The reason is not that "that" is "the" paleolithic way.
I just have my own private reasons for it. Just let me.
I also won't complain if you don't eat mammot.
Let there be a small rest of privacy.

>...or even
>close to one, and has not been (if ever) for hundreds of millions of
>years. ..

Btw. anatomical modern humans exist since about 120 thousand years.
Hominids exist since about 2 million years, the onsetting of the ice age.
Primates exist since some 30 million years before.
And all probabilities speak that the human anchestors of this time were
fruitarians.

Amadeus S.








At best, you can say that YOU don't WANT to eat animals, and
>through modern technology YOU can manage it without developing any
>serious deficiency diseases, and MAYBE without developing any of the
>other degenerative diseases.  BUT it is NOT a normal or natural diet for
>your body.
>
>It's one thing for you to argue about how you, as a modern, technological
>man, can avoid eating animal products and still obtain your basic needs
>in something close to a "paleo" way, but quite another to toss out these
>bits of nonsense about how difficult it might have been for Lucy, or any
>other of our ancestors, to obtain and consume large amounts of animal
>foods, constituting a major portion of their normal diet.  When you go
>off on these ridiculous tangents, you are just playing games which are of
>no possible constructive use to anyone.
>
>Personally, I think vegetarianism is bizarre and unhealthy, but I
>recognize that some people will insist on living that way.  As a strong
>believer in the health benefits of lowcarb and paleo, I approve and
>encourage any discussion that will help such people follow a lowcarb or
>paleo diet as closely as their prejudices make possible (vegetarian,
>lacto/ovo, vegan, etc...).  I include as much specific information on the
>subject as I can in my Low Carbohydrate FAQ (within the constraints of
>the format of that document), and always look out for additional
>"vegetarian lowcarb" resources, but sometimes I'm forced to wonder why
>people here haven't just given up dealing with you.
>
>If you REALLY want to be constructive, why not provide some good, solid
>LC/paleo strategies for modern people with the vegetarian eating
>disorder...
>
>
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