Message text written by Pat Morrissey to "BP - \"Is this the list with all
the ivy haters?\""
>>Don't name rep names.  Just products.  What products were initially
>installed? (Jahn, Ediso, Conproco)  How long were they up?(Several months
>over a winter) How did they perform? (Cracking  , or delamination or lack
>of color matching were apparent on two of the three) Were they the
>appropriate products for the intended use(I sure hope so, at least the
>conservators thought so)?  What was the "last minute
>product"?(Legacy, a precast repair mortar) Was it properly installed?
>(Don't know)  Was it an appropriate product?(Don't know)  How did
>it fail?(Cracking and delamination)  Why do you think it failed?(Maybe
>someday we will find out)
><

Well, friends, I wasn't the one who started this thing with the naming of
names again. While I disagreed with those who found some of the speech here
on BP too commercial and self-promoting, I have respected the sensibilities
of those who wished to maintain a more positive ambiance, and have until
now declined to add fuel to this particular brushfire. So what do you have
to say now, Ken?

In view of Mr. Morrissey's comments, however, I will have to respond a
little more directly.

1. I find at least one of Mr. Morrissey's answers candid and accurate: The
one where he says he "don't know". That would have been a far more accurate
answer to some of the other questions as well, because there has been no
scientific investigation or qualification of such things as material
properties, installation methods or job conditions. His product wasn't
used, and he would like us all to think that that's why there is a problem,
clean and simple. The reality is that even products represented by Mr.
Morrissey have problems from time to time, which Mr. Riddle has
acknowledged. Nobody has any magic or a monopoly on success in this
business, nor do they have an immunity to things beyond their control
causing problems. 

2. There are more factors involved in this particular "test" situation than
we could possibly discuss fully here, including, among other things, the
fact that sample patches were done at temperatures below the required
minimum. The "2 out 3" comment is incorrect. ALL patches showed some
discoloration, including the Jahn patches, some of which turned white. I
would have attributed that to the untimely installation.

3. As for the Conproco, it HAS shown a general tendency to crack and
delaminate, a complaint that I have heard from enough different unrelated
credible sources, and which I have personally observed under enough
different circumstances to find it indicative of an inherent problem. Our
testing of this product in 1996 corroborated some key concerns. My
assumption is that since these problems became apparent over 3 years ago
and the product is still being sold today that somewhere along the line
they worked out their worst formulation problems. But Mr. Morrissey is
being less than forthcoming in trying to paint all of his competition with
the same brush. Jahn, for example, has far greater shrinkage and lower
tensile bond strength, which leads to a greater tendency to have problems
with cracking and delamination than Edison does. 

4. As for the Jahn product being specified exclusively for this project,
this was an outcome which, according to some, was determined even before
the testing began. I will maintain the position that specifying the product
exclusively was a bad idea, and I think the results bear that out. But
consultants and contractors make the decisions they make for a variety of
reasons: Technical, economic, logistical, political, emotional - not all of
them logical. Some specifiers specify Jahn only, some specify Edison only,
some specify both. 

5. As for Legacy, we have not tested it so I will not make any specific
comments, other than the fact that it is relatively new and untried and
therefore inherently riskier than products which have some history and
refinement time behind them. Nobody can say for sure, however, based on the
reports given here, that the cause of this product's failure was an
inherent defect in its formulation. What if Jahn was discounted this way
the first few dozen times there were problems with cracking and
delamination?

Mike Edison
Edison Coatings, Inc.