> Perhaps you could learn something from it? ;)

i allways do and it is fun !

It may be useful for you to
> consider me a "decieved ex-instincto" but it is likely that Burger
deserves
> the trash talk get receives.

i feel concerned when i hear you  saying that somebody deserve agression ,
because i need respect for human beings , i would like you to confront ideas
of others without having to judge them personally for having those ideas.

would you be wiling to do that .?

 Why can't you consider that that may be
> "Truth"? Just for a moment? Kinda an experiment? ;)

what truth ? that Burger need being agressed.?
>
> > I don't think anybody needs agressing anyway , maybe kirt have a need to
> > agress , in that case it is an other story and i am curious to hear what
> > need of him have not been met to want to meet them thru agression of
others.
>
> You continue to consider yourself privvy to my inner pyscho workings.
Fair
> enough: tit for tat. Let me put it this way: have you a need to agress
> relatively nameless cooperations in your conspiracy theories, the ones
that
> certainly won't bother with you?

it took me a while to get something out of this sentence , what i am
receiving now is that you are upset because you had a need for being talked
to directly  rather than speaking about you ..

is it right ?

i wrote it that way because i was not willing at first to engage a
conversation with you  directly , my past experiences have been that a
direct conversation  with you   ended up in me feeling unsatisfied  in my
need for understanding .
Apparently it was a mistake .I am sorry that you got offended

<i agress you for your secrecy and
> neo-neurotic avoidance of issues, . I also agress you for using your last
two offspring as your
> personal buddies in your loneliness.

again very unclear to me what you are referring to , i am feeling frustrated
in a conversation with you when you use slang language or unusual ( to me )
expressions in english that even with the help of a dictionary is secret to
my  understanding

. It is like i was saying to you " ca ne mange pas de pain" even translated
in english ( it 's not eating bread ) without a cultural context you could
not get it .
so i have a request if you are willing and if you see some interest in
mutual understanding , that you speak the type of english that i learned
from school or from reading  and that you abstain to use "meant to make fun"
kind of expressions

rereading it i got "the offsprings ", it took me a while to get that you
were talking about my childrens because of what was following "personal
buddies in my loneliness" . i could not see my children as buddies . even
less in my loneliness. I was looking for  adult buddies in my way of
thinking .
are you upset and concerned about their health ?
i understand that because when from my perspective i see parents giving a
diet to their children that i see problematic for their health , i can feel
upset  and concerned .
tho it never dawn on me that by agressing them i could be helping  them nor
their children  to make better choices
>
> > Agression doesn't serve  honesty or integrity.
>
> You may not be familiar with what is worth agressing.

no ! what is worth agressing and why?  what is the purpose  ? what do you
want to obtain  from it .?
>
> > Real honesty require that
> > observations stay observations , that feelings triggered by those
> > observations are expressed while being related ,  linked , connected to
the
> > unmeet needs that caused them .
> > from that place of honesty one can request from others concrete help to
meet
> > those needs, and this lead to integrity of behaviors ,thinking and
feelings
>
> Pretend I typed the words back at you. Just for fun. ;)

i try to use this  kind of honesty i was talking about ,   when i write .
thanks for reminding me . Tel me please when i fail.

> > what other trade off ,did you find out after experimenting with cooked
meats
> > and vegetables again ? what advantages can you foresee in cooked meats
> > versus raw .?
>
> I think I have mentioned that several times.

all what i got now is that it helped you to eat what you could not eat raw
 some organs for ex ) and eat more vegetables .
is it correct ?
what else ?
>
> Do you have a problem with fruits?

i had one as i had with cooked carbohydrate before ,
very much exacerbated by the loss of adrenal cortex function but still as
you know  perhaps related to our paleolithic ancestors diet who might have
losse the abilty to handle high carbonhdate diet .
 Perhaps you moved to BC to avoid your
> problem with fruits and overeating?

i moved to Bc because i met my wife while travelling durting a 3 month trip
thru the mountains of the west coast .I was eating lot of dry fruits but it
was okay at that point because i was burning the sugar ( skiing in winter
with a heavy backpack is hard work )
 my problems with fruits in the pyrennees was more to be able to have a
supply  of organic fruits living in the highest mountain village of the
chain.
i miss that i didn't take advantage at the time of the nice supply of wild
meats available there , something i do here.

my problem of overeating that is a life long pattern started with "la
bouillie" ( white flour ,white sugar and milk ) given to me as a baby , and
who followed me in the differents way i ate thru the years , is quite
resolved by now with a raw paleodiet.

In any case, you have specialized health
> problems and generalizing to all of humanity may not be proper--like many
of
> the health gurus.

absolutelly and it is why i am not generalising

> > FRancois like many other peoples practicing instinctive nutrition might
> > defend his theoretical model concerning nutrition , not the person.
>
> Cop out. Including you. (Freudian slip on the double CAPS? ;))

 what is your Freudian interpretation on the double CAPS ?

i see it is difficult for you to separate peoples from their behavior.
when i am upset about the behaviors of others ,it is because of what i am
thinking about them not because of their behavior . it is my interpretation
that hurts me not whatever moved them to act that way . Because when i
understand what was the cause for them  acting that way  i feel connected to
their person and am not upset anymore
>
> >
> Showing your true colors here? Ano hardly typifies what you are
> pontificating.

are you telling me that Ano didn't get vaccinated and treated with
antibiotics during his childhood ? . I will presume that only for a short
time in his life he became resistant to the idea .

> Maybe. Maybe you are grasping at straws? Ano should have never survived
> infancy? How about you?

without cortisone therapy i will be dead by now ! At least it is what i have
been led to believe .
>
> LOL. Have you been in an armchair? I'm at a loss for words.
....
>Going for broke, no?
...
> So there _is_ hope? ;)


i see that loss of meaningfull words .
.
>
>
 And what about my point?

i am not dimissing any informations , i a m certainly dismissing your
judgements .

> > 10000 years ago because of the switch to grain diet required cooking
when
> > before meats din't have to be cooked for being edible .
>
> So why don't modern h-g on the whole eat raw animal foods. You, and other
> instinctos, really fall flat when you associate cooking with grains. Let's
> pretend, just for a moment, that paleo folks cooked paleo foods.

yes most of them did  except when circonstances was limiting them ( inuits )
or because they liked to continue to eat raw some of their foods ( liver,
heart , adrenal glands  for native tribes of the plain  for ex ) most of the
peoples on earth got affected also by the neolithic revolution, even peoples
considered hunter gatherers .( like amazonian tribes )
and it is certainly connected .
Most of the people on earth are also leaving the hunter gatherers life style
or even traditional neolithic cultures for benefiting  from the left over
from industrial people.
may be there is nothing wrong in all of that and whatever health issues  are
raised for the planet( desertification pollutions...) and  for the peoples
 diseases ... ) that comes from that,  is a blessing .
Some have postuled than it will allow us to ascend to other plans  of
experience .
i read a french writing on the instincto list explaining that he is eating
some cooked foods sometimes to not miss this opportunity and called the pure
instincto line the "superchimpanzees " , healthier but not able to become
truelly human . he see some diseases as necessarry siritual help
eh that will fit with my condition ,  enlightement thru sickness....

i am open to every possible interpretration but  have a favorite one for now


for me that is simply no sustainable life style that can maintain the old
organisation of life on earth .your questionning of modern diet  stop at
cooked paleo , i go farther back ., i have to emphasize to prevent
missunderstanding that i don't say you are wrong for thinking that way .
>
> > Many Native tribes
> > of the americas wre still eating raw meats when the first white peoples
came
> > over .
>
> LOL. And New World paleos define modern genetics? ;)

 modern french are still eating steak tartare ,  very rare meats  and raw
eggs ( less so since the americanisation of their diet , they go more for
packaged foods now )
>
> Or put it this way: Many natives tribes of the Americas were eating plenty
> of smoked/cooked animal foods when the first white people came over.

some native tribes of the west coast were eating prefering dry  salmon  or
cold smoked instead of cooked smoked.
>
Perhaps we could ask Ingrid? But I am
> toying with such an experiment. What I think would be fun is a
> died-in-the-wool instincto like yourself to match me.


i did many time and i do

 But, of course, you
> will say that your first cooked "exception" gave you
> gas/nervousness/whateverbullshityoucaretosay and you will end it.

the repeted experiences allways bring me disconfort

 Nevermind
> the "detox symptoms" you lived through on faith for so many years on
> instincto, eh?

i never bought into the detox idea . the instinctos  neither,  they see it
as a sign of not proper nutrition , desintoxification have to happen in a
close to symptomless way to be positive ( no needs to overwhelemed the
elimination organs ).
and as i said earlier i have not been thru acutes diseases as long as i was
eating instincto . since i became less strict i did have difficult
experiences .
>
> What have you got to lose? (I know, I know, you have special medical
> conditions.)

thank you for understanding that choice of diet for me  is not a light
decision .

< Think me a prick,

in my dictionary there is 20 meanings to the verb prick which one is the
right one ? i didn't find any for the name , it is good because i have no
use for calling name .

but it is time you stopped speaking for homo
> sapiens

either i am an homosapien and can speak of my experience in it or i am a
lointain cousin and you don't have to listen .

jean-claude